Repair your igniter

[Matchless]

Here is a guide on how to test and repair your igniter as well as a cheap replacement with HEI modules in the addendum. At the moment it only covers the igniter for a GS1000G 1980 which has mechanical advance. The testing part should give enough detail to prove whether your igniter is faulty or not.
I hope others can use the information.
Download PDF from here:http://www.mediafire.com/file/mmmoluy1yev/Repair and Fault finding GS1000G Ignitor.pdf

A new link has been provided as the document was updated

Please download the new version.

 

[BassCliff]

Hi Mr. Matchless,

Andre, you've been quietly writing up a lot of very informative guides. You've got quite a collection of "how to's" there in your MediaFire account. Very, very nice work. May I add some links on my site that point to your excellent write-ups? Thanks Andre!


Thank you for your indulgence,

BassCliff

 

[Matchless]

Mr BikeCliff,
You are welcome to use any you think will be usefull. Some are not my own and collected from others hard work for my own reference later when needed. As the free MediaFire seems to be problematic at times, it would be bettter if you would rather consider hosting them on your website instead of linking if you do not mind.
I hope that these would be usefull to other members

 

[BassCliff]

You're a prince!

You're a prince!

Mr BikeCliff,
You are welcome to use any you think will be usefull. Some are not my own and collected from others hard work for my own reference later when needed. As the free MediaFire seems to be problematic at times, it would be bettter if you would rather consider hosting them on your website instead of linking if you do not mind.
I hope that these would be usefull to other members

Thanks Mr. Matchless!

Andre, you've got some great magazine articles on carb theory and tweaking. And thanks again for the excellent write-ups of your own work. I'll grap copies as I have time and store them on my website in your own section. There's starting to be just too much information on the front page so I'll have to consider how to start organizing it better. Let me know if you have any suggestions.

Thank you for your induglence,

BassCliff

 

[Matchless]

Thanks Mr. Matchless!

There's starting to be just too much information on the front page so I'll have to consider how to start organizing it better. Let me know if you have any suggestions.

Thank you for your induglence,

BassCliff

Cliff,
I think you will easily get away with a very basic index tree, Workshop Manuals, Owners Manuals, Electrical Stuff, Brake Stuff, Nice Stuff, etc. In actual fact you could also rename it to something like "BikeCliffs's Ultra Compendium of GS Suzuki Stuff" or something like that. At the moment I think you have the most comprehensive collection for any specific topic that I have seen in a long time!
In actual fact now that I think about it there may be some information that Mr Suzuki did not even have in the GS days!!
Keep up the good work.

 

[Matchless]

Update/correction in schematic

Update/correction in schematic

Update Update!

Could anyone who has downloaded please replace the document. A small error was found in the schematic and corrected. The updated document is found in a new link in the first post and here http://www.mediafire.com/?sharekey=3a0ab726f6117e564012e8015643d9c85717b31bfbde8fc1. Apologies for the inconvenience


I am in consultation with Lou who developed an replacement ignition for Kawasaki and Honda older bikes using 2 HEI modules. If it can work on the Suzuki GS I will post this with his permission as well.
Watch this space!

 

[Suzuki_Don]

Update Update!

Could anyone who has downloaded please replace the document. A small error was found in the schematic and corrected. The updated document is found in a new link in the first post and here http://www.mediafire.com/?sharekey=3a0ab726f6117e564012e8015643d9c85717b31bfbde8fc1. Apologies for the inconvenience


I am in consultation with Lou who developed an replacement ignition for Kawasaki and Honda older bikes using 2 HEI modules. If it can work on the Suzuki GS I will post this with his permission as well.
Watch this space!

Andre you are doing good work on this stuff. May come in handy for me one day if I decide to ditch my points and condensers. But I know others will be benefitting from your information.

 

[Matchless]

Don, thanks for the kind words. I have good news Lou has sent me his first prototype schematic using the HEI modules on the GS1000GT. My modules arrived this afternoon and I put together a circuit and started the bike. It runs!!! There are stiil some problems as the spark is weak and I could not test ride it, but the basic concept is working. Unfortunately Lou does not have a Suzuki and cannot test his design.

 

[Suzuki_Don]

Hi Andre, have you done any more work on the HEI ignition modules. Have you been able to test your 1000 with the new system. I have managed to pick up the triggering device and parts that attach to the end of the crankshaft, but I could not get the igniter (I was outbid). Do you have any info on one that will work on my 550 now I have the triggering device. Any updates gratefully received.

Does anyone know why they use a different advance/retard mechanical mechanism between the "G" & "E" model bikes (650). Does one require more advance than the other. Are the springs different or is it the bob weights. Does anyone know. They both look the same but have different part numbers.

 

[Nessism]

I suspect the advance will be close enough; the 850 and 1100 use the same advance curve so can't imaging how much different the 550 and 650 could be from each other.

I'm also curious to hear about the HEI conversion deal. This seems like the way to go to me.

 

[Matchless]

Don,
The HEI setup I have is still in the prototype phase. The GS1000G has two pickup coils in series and only two wires to the ignitor. Many other bikes have 3 or 4 wires or have the center grounded etc, so this one is different than others already proven.
I do not yet want to post the prototype as Lou the designer still has to look at a safety feature to protect the coils. He did tell me that he may take a while as he has some other priorities, so I am waiting for his feedback.
I will send you a mail with some details to get you going.
Keep well.

 

[Matchless]

I updated the document and provided a new link in the first post.
The document now has a comprehensive testing guide to help you test the OEM igniter.

I have also added an addendum for building your own cheap replacement igniter with two chevy HEI modules.

Please note this is only for bikes that use a machanical advance!
Hope it is usefull!

 

[brad-450Lz]

Hello Matchless,

I'm considering following the procedure outlined in your .pdf using the wells DR-100 ignitor unit. If this works it would be a dream come true considering how much a new box would run me.

I did have one concern though. As you mentioned in a previous post your proven design is for a GS1000 with two pickup wires.

My '82 450L has three wires from the pickup coil. The third wire is a black/white wire which I have verified to be connected to ground. Measuring the resistances between the two pickup wires (brown and green/white) I can deduce that the ground point is in the middle of the coil. This is because brown to green/white measures twice as much resistance as brown to black/white or green/white to black/white (which are equal in resistance).

So here's the question: Can I connect the two leads from the pickup coils as shown in your diagram but also connect the black/white wire coming from the pickup coil to the black/white ground connection shown in your diagram?

Would any other modifications be necessary? If I connect this and it turns out to be wrong.. what will be destroyed?...

Thanks for all the work you've posted ... it's gotten me pretty far to this point and I'm hoping this will fix my ignitor problems.

 

[Matchless]

Hello Matchless,

I'm considering following the procedure outlined in your .pdf using the wells DR-100 ignitor unit. If this works it would be a dream come true considering how much a new box would run me.

I did have one concern though. As you mentioned in a previous post your proven design is for a GS1000 with two pickup wires.

My '82 450L has three wires from the pickup coil. The third wire is a black/white wire which I have verified to be connected to ground. Measuring the resistances between the two pickup wires (brown and green/white) I can deduce that the ground point is in the middle of the coil. This is because brown to green/white measures twice as much resistance as brown to black/white or green/white to black/white (which are equal in resistance).

So here's the question: Can I connect the two leads from the pickup coils as shown in your diagram but also connect the black/white wire coming from the pickup coil to the black/white ground connection shown in your diagram?

Would any other modifications be necessary? If I connect this and it turns out to be wrong.. what will be destroyed?...

Thanks for all the work you've posted ... it's gotten me pretty far to this point and I'm hoping this will fix my ignitor problems.

Brad,
Have a look at this. http://www.mediafire.com/file/zdzzudogx22/Ignitor Bosch HEI for GS650.pdf I have never tested this exact configuration but it may help you.
Let me know how it turns out.

 

[brad-450Lz]

Hi Matchless,

Thanks for the reply! I'm curious as to why you would suggest the Bosch HEI for my application instead of the Wells HEI approach outlined on your other .pdf

Also, after looking over the schematic using the Bosch HEI I'm still not clear as to where to put the ground connection coming from my signal generator. Looking through the GS650 schematics on BikeCliff's page some of the 650's have two leads coming from the signal generator and some have three like my 450 does. It looks like your schematic is expecting only two wires from the signal generator. Is this an incompatibility or can I overcome this with a simple modification?

My gut feeling would be to connect this wire to the circuit ground in the schematic. I'm just wondering if there are any issues you can forsee with doing this. Since my signal generator is grounded in the middle I'm guessing the driving circuitry in the ignitor may have to function differently than in the case where you have only two signal generator wires.

What do you think .... any insights?

 

[Matchless]

Hi Matchless,

Thanks for the reply! I'm curious as to why you would suggest the Bosch HEI for my application instead of the Wells HEI approach outlined on your other .pdf

Also, after looking over the schematic using the Bosch HEI I'm still not clear as to where to put the ground connection coming from my signal generator. Looking through the GS650 schematics on BikeCliff's page some of the 650's have two leads coming from the signal generator and some have three like my 450 does. It looks like your schematic is expecting only two wires from the signal generator. Is this an incompatibility or can I overcome this with a simple modification?

My gut feeling would be to connect this wire to the circuit ground in the schematic. I'm just wondering if there are any issues you can forsee with doing this. Since my signal generator is grounded in the middle I'm guessing the driving circuitry in the ignitor may have to function differently than in the case where you have only two signal generator wires.

What do you think .... any insights?

OK, maybe I should have mentioned it. In the middle of the schematic you should find the Wells connections for the same schematic.
I actually missed your three wire requirement, have a look here. http://www.mediafire.com/file/hmzktoygnyg/GPZheiMod.gif This is not my work and the originating persons name is on the schematic. Hope this helps.

 

[brad-450Lz]

HEI conversion results for '82 450L

HEI conversion results for '82 450L

Hi Matchless,

I wanted to follow up with you (and anyone else who's considering an HEI module) to let you know that the conversion did not work for me. I received my modules soldered them up, tested them for functionality using a 1.5V dry cell battery to simulate input from the pickup coils. Everything looked great, it was sparking on command.

However...... when I mounted them on my bike it was a no go. There was much spitting and sputtering and an occasional backfire through the air intake (pods in my case).

After some hunting and thinking I've got the following hypothesis:

These HEI boxes (old chevy type) would spark when the 1.5V battery was REMOVED from contact. Meaning you put the leads across the battery in normal igniter test procedure and the spark would only come when you removed the battery lead. Doing some reasearch it seems that some bikes fire once upon connection to the battery then fire the other side when the battery is disconnected. On the other hand my factory service manual for the 450L states spark shoud occur upon contact. Do you think this could be the rub?

Are these boxes usually only meant for "breaker" type operation where ignition is triggered when the ciricuit grounds? The data would suggest that's what they are expecting to see as a trigger. My bike has an all electronic ignition so there are no points etc... It must be operating on a slightly different system that makes it incompatible with these HEI modules.

Just wanted to share my experiences with you and any others that may be heading down a similar troubleshooting path. Hope it helps someone or helps you help someone .

Hope you're enjoying the cup,

Brad

 

[Matchless]

Thanks for the feedback. To get it working on the GS1000 at the time the originator helped me to change the values of the components to 'bias' the voltage on the input so that the voltage from the pickups were raised a bit to trigger the HEI module properly for the GS1000 and we got it working.

It may be that your pickups require to be biased slightly different to allow the pulse to properly trigger the HEI modules. Unfortunately its been a long time ago and I have forgotton what we did exactly, but I also measured the dwell angle at the time and we could also see "ghost" sparks with a timing light until we got the biasing right (resistor and diode config) using a sort of try and test approach.

If you want to look into it I may still have a write up he made where he goes into details and it should help you set your bias voltage on the input to push the pickup pulse into the operating range of the HEI.
Send me PM if you need it