Replaced the R/R and now......

[stu78]

Hi All,

I have a 1983 GS400E. The Battery is about 1 year old and has been on trickle charge + started and ran the bike every 2 weeks or so through the winter season. I used this battery all season last summer when I obtained the bike. I'm in the Vancouver, BC area. Before replacing the R/R: I was getting 16.5+ volts during idle and over 17 volts raising the RPM to 3500 or so. I have determined that I was getting this voltage all season last year.

I just replaced the stock R/R (pronged) with a Ricks Motorsport R/R. Butt connected the the 5 wires and heated to seal the connectors. After the installation, I tried to fire it up and nothing. Hitting the starter multiple times...nothing. So I cranked down on the crimps one more time. Presto, the starter fired right up upon touching the start button. Now, I'm getting a voltage of about 13.7 at idle and about 13.0, 13.1 volts when I rev it up. I'm thinking that there are a few things that could be wrong here:

1. My crimp connections are garbage and not connected well enough.

2. My battery is weak since I was over charging it for most of riding season last year. I should check the fluid level in it and check for corroded connections.

3. My Stator is getting weak and not producing enough voltage.

When I have a chance this weekend, I'll check the stator diodes and output voltage on the 3 legs. Also, I will open up the battery.

What do you think?


Alex

 

[tom203]

I'm sorta amazed that you didn't fry stuff with last years's r/r. Anyways, how dare you ignore our advice about getting a SH-775 r/r ? You probably have all 3 of your issues - your stator is likely weak but lousy connections add to problem

 

[Nessism]

Did you wire the stator directly into the R/R, bypassing the factory harness?

How did you go about grounding the new R/R?

Where is the power output from the R/R going?

Did you perform a voltage drop test along the power output from the R/R on the way to the battery?

All these details are critical. Based on your purchasing an over priced Rick's R/R it seems you didn't research the problem here before spending your money.

 

[stu78]

Did you wire the stator directly into the R/R, bypassing the factory harness?

How did you go about grounding the new R/R?

Where is the power output from the R/R going?

Did you perform a voltage drop test along the power output from the R/R on the way to the battery?

All these details are critical. Based on your purchasing an over priced Rick's R/R it seems you didn't research the problem here before spending your money.

Alright, I can provide some comedy this afternoon....

1. I cut the end of the harness and connected those 5 wires to the r/r.

2. Connected the black wire from the harness to the new r/r.

3. Power out is going to the wire right from the harness I cut.

4. Did not perform a voltage drop test. I only checked the voltage from the positive side of the battery to ground during idle, 3500 rpm and 5000 rpm

 

[stu78]

I'm sorta amazed that you didn't fry stuff with last years's r/r. Anyways, how dare you ignore our advice about getting a SH-775 r/r ? You probably have all 3 of your issues - your stator is likely weak but lousy connections add to problem

Ya, I'm surprised I didn't melt any wires. I should have read and taken the advise.

 

[Steve]

I will just insert my comments in your quoted post:

========================

I have a 1983 GS400E. The Battery is about 1 year old and has been on trickle charge + started and ran the bike every 2 weeks or so through the winter season.
How long did you run the bike every 2 weeks? If you did not take it out for at least a half-hour ride, you probably did more damage than good by starting it and not getting it up to full operating temperature.
And what kind of "trickle charger" do you have? If it is a manual, low-rate trickle charger, that could easily kill the battery.
Even if it is an "automatic charger", it can easily kill the battery. They typically just switch from their higher rate (1.5 to 2 amps) to a lower rate, but just hold that lower rate, slowly cooking the battery.
You really need a "battery companion" that will shut off when the battery is charged, then come back on if it drops too low.


I used this battery all season last summer when I obtained the bike. I'm in the Vancouver, BC area. Before replacing the R/R: I was getting 16.5+ volts during idle and over 17 volts raising the RPM to 3500 or so. I have determined that I was getting this voltage all season last year.
How far into the season did you determine this? How far/long did you ride after you discovered this?


I just replaced the stock R/R (pronged) with a Ricks Motorsport R/R. Butt connected the the 5 wires and heated to seal the connectors.
Hopefully you have connectors that are supposed to be sealed with heat.


After the installation, I tried to fire it up and nothing. Hitting the starter multiple times...nothing. So I cranked down on the crimps one more time. Presto, the starter fired right up upon touching the start button.
I am now wondering exactly what part you replaced, because it doesn't matter what you do to the R/R (you can even leave it on the shelf), it does not affect whether the bike starts.


Now, I'm getting a voltage of about 13.7 at idle and about 13.0, 13.1 volts when I rev it up. I'm thinking that there are a few things that could be wrong here:

1. My crimp connections are garbage and not connected well enough.
A definite possibility. What kind of crimpers did you use?


2. My battery is weak since I was over charging it for most of riding season last year. I should check the fluid level in it and check for corroded connections.
Since you know your voltage was very high last year, a dry battery is highly suspect. Did you check the fluid at all last year? If not, and it is dry, it's time for a new battery. Wet-cell batteries do not like to be kept dry, especially if you force-feed them over the winter.


3. My Stator is getting weak and not producing enough voltage.
Also a possibility, but you need to measure the output to know for sure.
Look in Nessism's signature, you will see a saying that will come up many, MANY times: "To measure is to know."


When I have a chance this weekend, I'll check the stator diodes and output voltage on the 3 legs.
Good luck finding the "stator diodes". In fact, if you find any, keep them, know that they will be the first ones ever found.


Also, I will open up the battery.
Hopefully you are just going to open the caps to check water level, but you can do that without removing the caps.
In all liklihood, you will need a new battery. Splurge a bit, get a sealed AGM battery. Note that is a construction type, not a brand name.
When you get it, put the battery tender on it overnight BEFORE you put it in the bike or put ANY kind of load on it.

What do you think?
I think you are in for some "fun" with troubleshooting and measuring. You will quickly discover why I tend to use connectors, rather than crimped connections, especially on items that might have to be replaced.

Good luck, keep us informed.

.

 

[stu78]

I'll reply in red

========================

I have a 1983 GS400E. The Battery is about 1 year old and has been on trickle charge + started and ran the bike every 2 weeks or so through the winter season.
How long did you run the bike every 2 weeks? If you did not take it out for at least a half-hour ride, you probably did more damage than good by starting it and not getting it up to full operating temperature.
I would run it for about 5 min on the center stand, then run it through the gears a couple of times getting the back wheel spinning. I know its not the best thing to do but I only have storage insurance right now. I would add throttle to give the engine some kind of load.

And what kind of "trickle charger" do you have? If it is a manual, low-rate trickle charger, that could easily kill the battery.
I have a "Battery Tender". I think its made by Deltran. Max 0.75 Amps for charging and drops right down to very little when it's full. I cannot remember the rating for when the battery is full.


Even if it is an "automatic charger", it can easily kill the battery. They typically just switch from their higher rate (1.5 to 2 amps) to a lower rate, but just hold that lower rate, slowly cooking the battery.
You really need a "battery companion" that will shut off when the battery is charged, then come back on if it drops too low.




I used this battery all season last summer when I obtained the bike. I'm in the Vancouver, BC area. Before replacing the R/R: I was getting 16.5+ volts during idle and over 17 volts raising the RPM to 3500 or so. I have determined that I was getting this voltage all season last year.
How far into the season did you determine this? How far/long did you ride after you discovered this?
Last year, in September, I noticed that the head light would really brighten up when I would rev it up at a stop or when I started the motor after being parked. I would guess that I rode most of last summer like that. Tough to say for sure.

I just replaced the stock R/R (pronged) with a Ricks Motorsport R/R. Butt connected the the 5 wires and heated to seal the connectors.
Hopefully you have connectors that are supposed to be sealed with heat.
Yes, definately. I am 100% sure they are to be sealed with heat.

After the installation, I tried to fire it up and nothing. Hitting the starter multiple times...nothing. So I cranked down on the crimps one more time. Presto, the starter fired right up upon touching the start button.
I am now wondering exactly what part you replaced, because it doesn't matter what you do to the R/R (you can even leave it on the shelf), it does not affect whether the bike starts.
This actually baffled me when it didn't fire up. I only changed the Rectifier/Regulator with 5 wires.

Now, I'm getting a voltage of about 13.7 at idle and about 13.0, 13.1 volts when I rev it up. I'm thinking that there are a few things that could be wrong here:

1. My crimp connections are garbage and not connected well enough.
A definite possibility. What kind of crimpers did you use?
I think I will address this again when I have some time to play. The fact that it wouldn't start at first then did start without issue after re crimping the connections leads me to believe that this is a large source of my problems. Don't laugh too hard but I didn't use proper crimpers. I used linesman pliers. Hey, I'm a plumber trying to do electrical work. I guess I should splurge and get the proper tools if I want to continue working on this bike.

2. My battery is weak since I was over charging it for most of riding season last year. I should check the fluid level in it and check for corroded connections.
Since you know your voltage was very high last year, a dry battery is highly suspect. Did you check the fluid at all last year? If not, and it is dry, it's time for a new battery. Wet-cell batteries do not like to be kept dry, especially if you force-feed them over the winter.
This battery is toast. See below.

3. My Stator is getting weak and not producing enough voltage.
Also a possibility, but you need to measure the output to know for sure.
Look in Nessism's signature, you will see a saying that will come up many, MANY times: "To measure is to know." This will be a test that I must do as well.


When I have a chance this weekend, I'll check the stator diodes and output voltage on the 3 legs.
Good luck finding the "stator diodes". In fact, if you find any, keep them, know that they will be the first ones ever found.
I guess instead of typing, I should have been reading.

Also, I will open up the battery.
Hopefully you are just going to open the caps to check water level, but you can do that without removing the caps.
In all liklihood, you will need a new battery. Splurge a bit, get a sealed AGM battery. Note that is a construction type, not a brand name.
When you get it, put the battery tender on it overnight BEFORE you put it in the bike or put ANY kind of load on it.
Tonight I opened the caps on the top of the battery and it is totally dry. White powdery metal inside. I will purchase a new battery and address the connections of the R/R

What do you think?
I think you are in for some "fun" with troubleshooting and measuring. You will quickly discover why I tend to use connectors, rather than crimped connections, especially on items that might have to be replaced.

Good luck, keep us informed.
Thanks for your insight.

 

[tom203]

Let's start over.. Get yourself a AGM battery ( maybe $50) fully charge it with your charger and do the Quick Test in this link and report all 6 results. This is a base to start from and pinpoint your issues.. Note the test's step 5 which you are seeing on your bike. Connections on these critters get pitiful over time- no sense throwing new parts at it without cleaning things up.

http://www.thegsresources.com/_foru...System-QUICK-TEST/page2&p=1272192#post1272192

 

[posplayr]

Tom thanks; this thread was getting way to painful to slog through.

 

[stu78]

Let's start over.. Get yourself a AGM battery ( maybe $50) fully charge it with your charger and do the Quick Test in this link and report all 6 results. This is a base to start from and pinpoint your issues.. Note the test's step 5 which you are seeing on your bike. Connections on these critters get pitiful over time- no sense throwing new parts at it without cleaning things up.

http://www.thegsresources.com/_foru...System-QUICK-TEST/page2&p=1272192#post1272192

OK. I got a new AGM battery. Charged it with the battery tender and put it in the bike with 12.7v. Started bike and at idle, I'm getting about 13.5v. At 2500 rpm, I'm getting about 14.0 volts. At 5000 rpm, I'm getting about 14.2 volts. Before testing, I re connected all the wires from the new R/R to the bike's existing wiring. I connected the ground to a different location, an existing bolt right to the frame. I have not done a test on the leads of the stator. I think the R/R is working correctly now.

Alex

 

[tom203]

"I think the R/R is working correctly now. "

Yes, it is , but why not help it out by cleaning connections, run a jumper ground wire wire from your "existing " frame bolt to battery negative. In your case, if you often run with headlights off and since you have a plain shunt r/r, I'd leave the suzuki wiring as is. Someday, the benfits of a series r/r will come aknocking.

 

[Gorminrider]

just as an aside into the minutiae of Suzuki detail,

if you often run with headlights off

probably not a worry, Headlights are on all the time on Canadian bikes from at least '81-my own Canadian 81s needed me to "redo" the switch, which had the capability but was "locked on" by the factory in a simple way.

83 400Es were quite an upgrade as to style so I doubt if they have anything there on the handlebar as an on/off switch.

aha...now I know for sure:
http://www.thegsresources.com/_foru...-GSX400E-Project-Suzzie&p=2265194#post2265194

no switch.