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Secondary Gear Tips Party

  • Thread starter Thread starter suedehead
  • Start date Start date
S

suedehead

Guest
So I had the (I guess normal after reading some posts on here) thing happen of the upper secondary gear shearing off where it connects to the driveshaft. I was somehow really really lucky in finding another set on ebay for fifty bucks. My dilemma now is how to get the old ones out and the new ones in without pulling the engine. I've also heard of not having to set the backlash again. I've never done anything like this but I'm not willing to pay a shop upwards of five hundred or so to do it for me. I should mention that I already have the drive shaft, swing arm, and shifter already off. So if anyone has any experience or tips on how to get through this mess any and all advice is appreciated. -Jim.

Oh, this is what I'm working on. 83 Suzuki GS1100GK with 83 Katana Forks

motorcycle004plus1.jpg
 
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You probably have to loosen the engine mounts and possibly take some loose and then wiggle and waggle the engine a bit to gain the clearance to remove the old gear and insert the new one.

This is what we had to do on Al's GS850GL, but some have gotten away with doing this without messing with the engine mounts.

As far as backlash, you're probably safest to use the shims that came with the "new" gear (assuming any did). If you compare the shims, you might even find they're the same (as we did) or close enough not to matter.
 
Greetings and Salutations!!

Greetings and Salutations!!

Hi Mr. suedehead,

I can't really speak to your issue so let me just roll out the welcome mat for you...

Please click here for your mega-welcome, chock full of tips, suggestions, links to vendors, and other information. Then feel free to visit my little BikeCliff website where I've been collecting the wisdom of this generous community. Thanks for the picture! :D

Thanks for joining us. Keep us informed.

Thank you for your indulgence,

BassCliff
 
Welcome to the GSR.

It is good practise to find out what has caused this failure. It seems more prevalant in the 1100's for some reason. Either the lock nut has loosened off, or the shaft material has not been tempered correctly.

I repaired an 1100 diff that had sheared off as well. It was gifted to me for parts so I wasn't sure what had caused it's failure. I didn't receive the broken stub and nut either. Mine had sheared right where the machined thread starts. The stub area was softer than expected. I could file the remaining piece. I drilled and tapped into it and used a high tensile bolt with the head machined off as it's replacement stub, loctiting it into the pinion. It's been on the bike for 6 months now, with no apparent problems.
You may find that your replacement unit will also fail if it's a design/material/tempering fault.
 
Yeah, I don't know if I'm getting shims with the gears I bought because they are off a gs1000 and are used. If they do come with shims would that make sense that they would fit nicely together because I'm replacing them as a set?
 
I'm in the midst of pulling the secondary trans on my 1100G right now. This is the 2nd time I've replaced the secondary trans on an 1100G and I can tell you that I could not see ANY way to remove the output side without raising the engine. At least I didn't have to remove the engine entirely. What I did was to remove all the mounting bolts except the front. I loosened that one up and used a floor jack to raise it up by putting a block of wood under the oil pan. I didn't have to raise it much before I was able to pull the secondary gear cluster out. The biggest hassle in my opinion was removing the exhaust system. Made me wish I had a header. ;)
If you haven't done so already, please add your findings (ie. type of failure to my survey in the Poll section).
Thanks and good luck,
Willie in TN
 
I did basically the same as Wille, however, i did not have to remove my exhaust to do it. I slipped a small piece of wood between the pipes for my jack to hit. At the time, the thought of creating another problem by possibly snapping the exhaust studs came to mind! The engine doesn't have to be raised much at all. Took all of about 3 hours to do from start to finish. And don't forget to loosen the case bolts (2 or 3 of them) around the drive gear so it will come out. it is sort of a tight fit. It will start to come out, then the seal will hold it up, just yank alittle harder...
 
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So are you having to reset the tooth adjustment/backlash with yours? Any tips on doing that?
 
Yes, you will have to recheck it. The Suzuki manual explains how to do this, and really it is pretty easy. I ended up using the shims that were originally on the bike VS the shims I got with the new gearset, seems the shims are more for taking up tolerance in the block moreso than the gearset. Please note to check the clearance without the rubber O-Rings installed!
 
Outa curiosity....why do you suggest checking w/o the o-rings installed?
Willie in TN
 
Because it is a world easier to install and remove the gearsets when checking your figures and adjustments.
 
I've got the swing arm dropped already. So when I'm resetting the gears do I put the machinist dye on them and slide them back into place turn them a bit and then take them back out to check where the teeth are connecting?
 
Thats pretty much it. i used chalk because I am not a machinist, and I didn't have any dye on hand. Worked good.
 
So I'm a total beginner at this...do I chalk the the edges of both gears? And can I get to the inside of that gear housing without much hassle? Isn't there a bearing in there? I thought I would pick a new one up and replace it just to be sure. Thanks again for all the advice, its meant alot to me to have people that have done it before banter back and forth over the correct way to do it. Haha. Seriously though, thanks guys. I think I'm gonna dig into it this weekend. Parts are in and the weather is supposed to be nice enough.
 
suedehead said:
And can I get to the inside of that gear housing without much hassle? Isn't there a bearing in there? I thought I would pick a new one up and replace it just to be sure.
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There is a bearing in there. I was going to replace the one in my housing until I discovered several bad teeth on one pinion gear. I've decided to replace the entire cluster assembly now instead of just the bearing. IMO, replacing the bearing is going to make shimming all the more important and, perhaps, more difficult, due to pressing the bearing onto the shaft having a direct effect upon the clearance (or lack of such) between the gears. I suggest that you make absolutely certain everything is adjusted (shimmed) properly before installing the swingarm.
Good luck and keep us posted of your results.
Willie in TN
 
The gear will definitely come out without loosening the engine. I've done a few and you just have to be patient. It clears (at a certain angle) by about 1.5mm.

Of course, it may just be easier to loosen the engine in it's mounts and jack it up anyway. Your call.
 
49er said:
Welcome to the GSR.

Mine had sheared right where the machined thread starts. The stub area was softer than expected. I could file the remaining piece. I drilled and tapped into it and used a high tensile bolt with the head machined off as it's replacement stub, loctiting it into the pinion. It's been on the bike for 6 months now, with no apparent problems.
You may find that your replacement unit will also fail if it's a design/material/tempering fault.
Click to expand...
It never ceases to amaze me at the KIWIS ability to McGuyver things!!! Very impressive fix!!! Ray.
 
rapidray said:
It never ceases to amaze me at the KIWIS ability to McGuyver things!!! Very impressive fix!!! Ray.
Click to expand...

Come on Ray, McGuyver would have hand drilled and trapped his. At least I centered mine up and drilled and tapped it in a lathe!!

Seriously, thanks for the compliments. Kiwis have a #8 wire mentallity. It stems from years of living remotely from the rest of civilisation. Our ingenuity has decreased somewhat with the advent of the digital era though.
 
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