side stand light/starter problems

[platinum2]

ok guys, my kick stand light will not go out,not even if unplugged, it worked fine when tore down
also- no power at starter button, could both probs come from the starter relay,selinoid, motor will turn over if jumped, im not happy ,any thoughts are appreciated

 

[old_skool]

How about put a bike in your signature, so we don't have to ask, everyone doesn't follow every post, so it's hard to know what bike your talking about.

You said "when tore down" what exactly did you do, the kick stand light should not be related in anyway to the solenoid, that light is on a fairly simple circuit, it receives it's power immediately from the ignition switch via the kill and starter button path, and completes the circuit at the stand, when the stand is down, the switch completes the ground, when up it breaks the circuit, if you unplugged the connector and the light is still on, one of 2 things have happened, either the ground wire to the stand is making a connection somewhere in it's path to the stand, or possibly, in your headlight bucket, you will see a long clear tube with a wire connected to a Diode, this diode is tied in with the kickstand circuit to the oil pressure switch, if the diode fails, allowing connection in either direction(diode is normally like a one way street) then your kickstand light will get its ground from the oil pressure switch.

Are you sure there is no power at the starter button, you need to check the small wire at the solenoid, it may have power, but if the solenoid is bad, it will act the same, jumping across only proves your starter works, as by shorting the 2 wires across the post, which just supplies power directly from your battery to the starter, by-passing the solenoid all together.

If the starter button does not in fact have any power, your best bet is get a wiring diagram for your bike(whatever that is) and follow the circuit back through the kill switch and eventually back to the fuse box, (check fuse box fuses before getting carried away first) and then back from the fuse box back to the ignition switch, then back to the fuse box.....this is why you need a wiring diagram. A lot of people see a wiring diagram and get the heebee jeebees, but it's really like a road-map. get a good color wiring diagram if you can, it will make it easier to follow.

 

[spyug]

I'm facing a similar thing with my 550. In my case the side stand and oil pressure lights stay on. Both are powered by the same 12v source and speaking with my pro-wrench yesterday he suggests that something is shorting that line somewhere. Like you, I didn't do anything to the bikes wiring so I'm also at a bit of a loss but I think OLd Skool has just pointed me in the right direction:

You said "when tore down" what exactly did you do, the kick stand light should not be related in anyway to the solenoid, that light is on a fairly simple circuit, it receives it's power immediately from the ignition switch via the kill and starter button path, and completes the circuit at the stand, when the stand is down, the switch completes the ground, when up it breaks the circuit, if you unplugged the connector and the light is still on, one of 2 things have happened, either the ground wire to the stand is making a connection somewhere in it's path to the stand, or possibly, in your headlight bucket, you will see a long clear tube with a wire connected to a Diode, this diode is tied in with the kickstand circuit to the oil pressure switch, if the diode fails, allowing connection in either direction(diode is normally like a one way street) then your kickstand light will get its ground from the oil pressure switch.

I'm going to check that next.

Good luck with yours.
Spyug.

 

[old_skool]

I'm facing a similar thing with my 550. In my case the side stand and oil pressure lights stay on. Both are powered by the same 12v source and speaking with my pro-wrench yesterday he suggests that something is shorting that line somewhere. Like you, I didn't do anything to the bikes wiring so I'm also at a bit of a loss but I think OLd Skool has just pointed me in the right direction:



I'm going to check that next.

Good luck with yours.
Spyug.

Yours definitely sounds like the diode, with one exception, your oil light will remain on until oil pressure builds up and opens the ground switch, try unplugging the oil sending unit to see if the light goes off, they sometimes just go bad, if it stays on, make sure your kickstand is up or unplug the connector to it, if it still stays on, time to chase wires. Rare but sometimes a place to look, is inside the housings where your indicator lights are, gauges/dash, sometimes there can be a corrosion build up from moisture if they don't seal properly, and a few of the lights share connections, corrosion on some of these sockets or connections can play havoc as well.

And your kickstand light doesn't have to to be on just because your oil light is, could be a separate issue, check the switch and unplug the connector first, then assume they are tied together.

As far as a diode replacement, you might buy any generic diode with the same values, maybe even from radio shack, or from the nearest salvage yard as these usually don't get bought too often.

 

[spyug]

Thanks Old Skool. I am just about to suit up and go check that now. I eliminated the gauge cluster the other day as I switched it with the one from the parts bike. No change, lights still on.

I wasn't aware of the diode in the circuit and I don't recall seeing it in the wiring diagram so I'll need to look much closer.

I'll let you know what I find.

cheers,
spyug

 

[spyug]

Ok so I took off the lead to the oil pressure switch and the oil light went off. The side stand light went off when I raised the stand so that's pointing to a bad OP sender? I can change that with the one on my parts bike to check.

Looking at the wiring diagram I now see a small rectanglee marked FM that is joined to the circuit feeding the warning lights. Is that the diode referred to?

Thanks for the help, I'm definitely getting somewhere.

Cheers,
Spyug

 

[old_skool]

It may not be the OP switch just because it went off when you unplug it, remember, the oil pressure switch and the kickstand switch work the same which why they share the same circuitry, it could still be the diode, which is usually in the headlight bucket, when that diode goes bad, your oil light will get it's ground connection with the kick stand down, plug the OP switch back in and disconnect the kick stand switch to be sure, if the OP light goes off, bad diode, if it stays on, bad OP switch. In reverse, only unplug the OP switch and then unplug the kickstand switch to see if it was getting it's ground from the OP or a bad kickstand switch, if it goes out, plug the kick stand switch back in, raise the kick stand, if it goes off, bad diode, if it stays on, bad kickstand switch. Do these test individually like this and you'll determine if you have one, two bad switches and or a bad diode. You may have more than one item bad.

Hopefully I splained things ok, don't want befuse you...lol

 

[old_skool]

The side stand light went off when I raised the stand so that's pointing to a bad OP sender? Spyug

Actually, after re-reading this, your side stand switch is probably good, but It's possible it is just a bad OP switch, as the flow is correct through the diode from the kickstand switch, to cause it to stay on. Check everything anyway, but I believe you have an easy fix.

 

[Killer2600]

Actually, after re-reading this, your side stand switch is probably good, but It's possible it is just a bad OP switch, as the flow is correct through the diode from the kickstand switch, to cause it to stay on. Check everything anyway, but I believe you have an easy fix.

tsk tsk tsk

STOP FIXING THAT WHICH ISN'T BROKE!!!!!!!!!!!!

The kickstand light will ALWAYS come on when the oil pressure light is ON - ALWAYS NO EXCEPTIONS.

You have to start your bike and make the oil pressure light go off before you can say your kickstand light never goes off and of course you can't start your bike if the start button has no power.

 

[old_skool]

tsk tsk tsk

STOP FIXING THAT WHICH ISN'T BROKE!!!!!!!!!!!!

The kickstand light will ALWAYS come on when the oil pressure light is ON - ALWAYS NO EXCEPTIONS.

You have to start your bike and make the oil pressure light go off before you can say your kickstand light never goes off and of course you can't start your bike if the start button has no power.

You have to at least assume the bike runs when they ask about these lights, I know you should never assume, but c'mon, spyug said he's had this problem awhile, I doubt he goes out in the garage everyday without a running bike and wonders why his lights stay on, and platinum2 can't assume he has no power at the start button without testing wiring at the solenoid first. Neither said while the bike was at rest.

 

[Killer2600]

You have to at least assume the bike runs when they ask about these lights, I know you should never assume, but c'mon, spyug said he's had this problem awhile, I doubt he goes out in the garage everyday without a running bike and wonders why his lights stay on, and platinum2 can't assume he has no power at the start button without testing wiring at the solenoid first. Neither said while the bike was at rest.

It's nothing against you or anyone else old_skool, ya'll just haven't caught on that nothing is wrong with the kickstand or oil light wiring.

I can tell simply because:

A) he/she pushes the start button and nothing happens, probably should try pulling the clutch in when you try to start it by the way, so I can assume everything thing is being checked in this situtation and

B) he/she has already done, and posted results to, the necessary wire checks - unplug the oil pressure switch, oil light goes out...work the kickstand up and down, kickstand light functions accordingly.

Now there is the off chance the bike is running while looking at these lights but I'd hope with the bike running a rider would be more concerned with an oil light on rather than an unresponsive kickstand light - because last I checked oil light meant no oil pressure and I think that takes precedence.

 

[spyug]

Thanks Old Skool. I have been around these puppies for long enough to know that you can't test it unless its running as you surmised. Next I will swap out OP senders to see if that gives anymore input to a diagnosis. I don't have a large enough wrench at the moment to get a grip on the boogers but maybe tomorrow I can round one up.

I appreciate all the assistance and I'll let you know what I find out.

Cheers,
Spyug

 

[Killer2600]

Ok my error I didn't see two people were asking about the same problem

I still think spyug has good wiring, but as for running a bike with an oil light on I've seen engines ruined because someone ignored the light - one of those engines was mine but someone else was borrowing the car.

The proper thing to do is get an oil pressure gauge or known good sender on there and see if you actually have oil pressure. Until that's done the light is a non-issue.

 

[old_skool]

Ok my error I didn't see two people were asking about the same problem

I still think spyug has good wiring, but as for running a bike with an oil light on I've seen engines ruined because someone ignored the light - one of those engines was mine but someone else was borrowing the car.

The proper thing to do is get an oil pressure gauge or known good sender on there and see if you actually have oil pressure. Until that's done the light is a non-issue.

I think before your last 2 post we already surmised it was probably just a OP switch/sensor for spyug, and platnum2 has wiring to check, but to ask if he pulled in the clutch...how about if he put the key in the ignition next
I think these guys are a little smarter than you give them credit for. Should I ad the little disclaimer now like you did to make it all better....nothing against you or...

 

[spyug]

As I said, that was my initial concern. I just picked up the bike a few weeks back and have been brining it back from its 3 year sleep. It has only been around the block a couple of times for no more than 5 minutes tops. I have no intention of blowing up a bike after the recent fiasco of my Ford Focus that some how ran out of oil ( but didn't show a warning light) and spun a bearing costing me $2k to sort. Trust me I'm hyper vigilant about oil in engines ( the bike had fresh oil and filter before taking it out).

I am going to try the other sender tomorrow if I can and I'll see where we go from there. Perhaps its wishful thinking, but I'm still tending toward a bum sender or some wiring issue.

I'll let you know what I find out.

Thanks for your concern. I honestly do appreciate it.

Cheers,
Spyug

 

[platinum2]

How about put a bike in your signature, so we don't have to ask, everyone doesn't follow every post, so it's hard to know what bike your talking about.

You said "when tore down" what exactly did you do, the kick stand light should not be related in anyway to the solenoid, that light is on a fairly simple circuit, it receives it's power immediately from the ignition switch via the kill and starter button path, and completes the circuit at the stand, when the stand is down, the switch completes the ground, when up it breaks the circuit, if you unplugged the connector and the light is still on, one of 2 things have happened, either the ground wire to the stand is making a connection somewhere in it's path to the stand, or possibly, in your headlight bucket, you will see a long clear tube with a wire connected to a Diode, this diode is tied in with the kickstand circuit to the oil pressure switch, if the diode fails, allowing connection in either direction(diode is normally like a one way street) then your kickstand light will get its ground from the oil pressure switch.

Are you sure there is no power at the starter button, you need to check the small wire at the solenoid, it may have power, but if the solenoid is bad, it will act the same, jumping across only proves your starter works, as by shorting the 2 wires across the post, which just supplies power directly from your battery to the starter, by-passing the solenoid all together.

If the starter button does not in fact have any power, your best bet is get a wiring diagram for your bike(whatever that is) and follow the circuit back through the kill switch and eventually back to the fuse box, (check fuse box fuses before getting carried away first) and then back from the fuse box back to the ignition switch, then back to the fuse box.....this is why you need a wiring diagram. A lot of people see a wiring diagram and get the heebee jeebees, but it's really like a road-map. get a good color wiring diagram if you can, it will make it easier to follow.

sorry -i have a 83 750 ed its my pic , i guess i assumed ppl would see it, and i was in gk's aera " the same bike" , i do need a lil more oil, im not trying to start it just get it to turn over, well a wire from the ignition sied was bad,i didnt know it had any effect on the stater,
the side stand- ? i dont know im thinking the rear bulbs not completing a ground?, everything worked and "its by far not my first "rodeo" working on a bike, yea i have a power glitch im tired of
all wires are connected correctly ,this is why i bothered talking about it-i have the factory manual,and internet search,google,ect... you get the gist i hope if i can rebuild a machine/s i could figure this $hit out:?:, since rebuilding something could kill if its built wrong! yes "very serious to me" i hope others realize this as well, i wouldnt want a friend,or anyone to ride somthing of mine and end up hurt do to stupid error

 

[Killer2600]

sorry -i have a 83 750 ed its my pic , i guess i assumed ppl would see it, and i was in gk's aera " the same bike" , i do need a lil more oil, im not trying to start it just get it to turn over, well a wire from the ignition sied was bad,i didnt know it had any effect on the stater,
the side stand- ? i dont know im thinking the rear bulbs not completing a ground?, everything worked and "its by far not my first "rodeo" working on a bike, yea i have a power glitch im tired of
all wires are connected correctly ,this is why i bothered talking about it-i have the factory manual,and internet search,google,ect... you get the gist i hope if i can rebuild a machine/s i could figure this $hit out:?:, since rebuilding something could kill if its built wrong! yes "very serious to me" i hope others realize this as well, i wouldnt want a friend,or anyone to ride somthing of mine and end up hurt do to stupid error

In case you missed it, I posted that the kickstand light will light whenever the oil light is ON. This is the designed operation from the factory, regardless if the kickstand is up or down if the oil light is ON the kickstand light will also be ON. The purpose being to draw your attention for the extremely important no/low oil pressure light.

It sounds dumb, but many have missed this, but are you pulling in the clutch when trying to start the bike? If you have, have you tried jumping the solenoid terminal (not the lugs for power and starter, the small wire goes to the start button) to battery positive? If you do this the solenoid should click if not activate the starter, if it doesn't you need to check the solenoid ground.

I know to some this stuff sounds easy and maybe rarely missed but you wouldn't believe how many times I've seen people overlook the easy and over complicate things just to find out the solution was an easy thing they missed. That and the easy stuff is easy, even if you do it 20 times it's easy and hardly any real work.

 

[platinum2]

thanks killer, i was wondering about the oil level, switch i do need more oil
it had a bad wire from the ignition on the right, it was smashed, so i fixed it now it turns over, and yes i looked into the clutch safety switch as well, it was boggling me because everything worked,and now i have a few bugs to fix
thanks for replys guys

 

[Killer2600]

thanks killer, i was wondering about the oil level, switch i do need more oil
it had a bad wire from the ignition on the right, it was smashed, so i fixed it now it turns over, and yes i looked into the clutch safety switch as well, it was boggling me because everything worked,and now i have a few bugs to fix
thanks for replys guys

You fill the oil according to the sight glass on the clutch cover while the bike is upright on the center stand. The oil light on the gauges has to deal with oil pressure and the engine has to be running to build up oil pressure and have oil flow. If the light does not go off once the bike is started/running then you could potentially have serious problems.

 

[platinum2]

You fill the oil according to the sight glass on the clutch cover while the bike is upright on the center stand. The oil light on the gauges has to deal with oil pressure and the engine has to be running to build up oil pressure and have oil flow. If the light does not go off once the bike is started/running then you could potentially have serious problems.

ok thanks again killer, i never thought that! i thought it went out when up, with bike off, i never paid attention i guess ,it seems to me that up would go out no matter so will see then, i am sure this must be the issue happy happy joy joy , i couldnt find anything in the book either! just the routing of the wire,and a pic ,but i didnt read the whole thing