Slider Clutch Oil Choice??

[madmikeracing]

Hi Guys, I have been using a slider clutch, Is it important to use a specific weight oil? I read that 10 -30 is recommended but I would like to keep using brad penn 30 weight straight?? I did swap out to delo 400 10-30 for the first runs and had other weird things happen. Schnitz box screwy, at shift points the bike jumps into the air with both wheels of the ground? Funny! Anyhow trying to eliminate anything that will affect proper operation of new clutch. Thanks Mike

 

[Rob S.]

Slider clutch? Is that a slipper clutch?

I wanted one for my bike, was told it would have to be custom built. What bike/clutch do you have?

 

[rapidray]

Brad Penn!!!
Ray.

 

[4cyl h2]

Brad Penn!!!
Ray.

is the brad penn good for cam break-in too

 

[blowerbike]

brad penn has lots of zinc....just like oil used to have back in the day.
zinc is a cams friend.

 

[madmikeracing]

Thanx Guys I guess I didn't explain myself correctly. I was told run 10 - 30 oil with a slider Period.!! ?? I have a MTC clutch (slider) Is it OK to run the 30 weight straight viscosity brad penn oil with my slider clutch>??? I was told use 10-30 weight only?? My other engines I run 30 no problem? Thanks Mike

 

[rapidray]

Straight 30 will be fine. If it is ever hot where you race I would rather run heavier oil, if it were mine.
Ray.

 

[trippivot]

Truth be told it is not an issue for the MTC slider clutch AT ALL! --KZ racers plug all oil from going in to them - Mine is sealed also.

Your rocker arms to cam lobe friction is what you want to worry about first, Sheer factor from the transmission second.

I use spectro 5W30 ATV type in the race engine and regular spectro 10W40 in the street 1428. In the past I have used Kendall (BPenn), Rotella, Shell, Valvoline, Advance generic,, mostly 10W30 and 10W40 but the diesel types was 15W40 - heavy oil shemeavy oil whatever , you have a lot more important issues to worry about if both wheels are coming off the deck when you shift.

Hey ROB S ! - Slider / slipper / engine driven clutches are all same terms - fork out 1500 bucks for a clutch and cover - match the basket and crank gears you prefer
the only special fitting is the inner hub - so air gap can be set with a new stack of fibers - after that it is so simple to measure and adjust it gets boring.

BTW I wore 3 fibers all last year -- they start new at .119" and I toss them at .110" - I got a stack of fibers that will work perfectly for a normal clutch where precise air gap is not an issue.

 

[madmikeracing]

Yo uguys prefer dino oil or Synthetic 30 weight Brad Penn? I havent ever used synthetic but...I've seen engines that ran only synthetic rusty inside (cams ) ? Tahnx Mike

 

[rapidray]

Falicon will not warranty a crank that has had synthetic oil in it. The problem with a ROLLER bearing crank is that the oil is so slick that the rollers start to slide instead of rolling. I like dinosaur oil in my stuff.
Ray.

 

[ArttuH]

I don't want to go synthetic vs. dino oil debate but I have been using synthetic oils on my turboed street GS for several years without any problems.

I have very limited experience about slider clutches but based on that I can give one advice. Whatever oil you choose stick with it unless you have a really good reason to change to another brand or viscosity. Oil can have quite significant effect on clutch tune up.

 

[Guest]

Falicon will not warranty a crank that has had synthetic oil in it. The problem with a ROLLER bearing crank is that the oil is so slick that the rollers start to slide instead of rolling. I like dinosaur oil in my stuff.
Ray.

If you take a 3mm roller on a 30mm journal - never having had a GS one apart I wouldn't have actual dimensions - it would take ten revolutions for the roller to make it all the way around the journal. However - isn't there always a 'however'? - it only goes maybe halfway round per revolution because one side doesn't actually rotate. Nevertheless, it will still spin at something like five times the rpm; a bigger roller less so and a smaller one more. It boggles my mind to think the rollers are spinning maybe 20 to 30 thousand rpm just cruising along.

The nasty part is that they have to accelerate to keep up with the rod swinging over the top and decelerate through the bottom, and there isn't always the right amount of force to provide the traction to avoid all sliding. The loaded rollers push the cage along and the centrifugal force keeps them against the rod and it all works, but if the oil is too thick the rollers can't spin and if it's too thin they scuff. In a plain bearing engine the rod angle change is irrelevant.

 

[trippivot]

oil has 3 duties cooling lubricating and sealing

oil has 3 duties cooling lubricating and sealing

synthetic looks good on paper- maybe it is better for babbit bearings but it causes hydroplaning of the rollers. that's a fact .

roller cranks are very forgiving so I believe in the long run it doesn't matter what type you use - if you are happy and confident is only thing that matters.

You can drive through any wet clutch with the power these engines produce using synth/or dino .. So at the higher levels a mechanical locking device on your clutch is necessary no matter what - lever or slider employing a mechanical lock doesn't need oil when it's in use.

The oil does carry the clutch friction material throughout the engine into the oil filter. Here is a question. What oil do you think filters more easily and return back to the moving parts?

I finally committed to spend a lot of hard earned money on my crankshaft (s) using new bearings and ONLY MY FAVORITE OIL but it's not the bearings I'm afraid of - the rods break right below the wrist pin boss.

just have some common sense when it comes to viscosity and the ambient temperature - 20/50 in cooler conditions is bad, straight 40 is worse... mmm-K

 

[Guest]

synthetic looks good on paper- maybe it is better for babbit bearings but it causes hydroplaning of the rollers. that's a fact .

I'd be more suspicious of the VI improver additives doing that. At least until they get beaten down into tiny shards. You can't make a blanket statement that synthetics do X and dino oils do Y; synthetic oil is what you decide to build, within the limits of possibility- and the EPA. The problem is that roller bearing cranks are such a tiny proportion of what's being designed for. I'm confident that a synthetic could be made to work well in roller big ends. Is it being done is the question.

Two strokes seem to thrive on synthetics and have all roller and ball bearings. But the moly content, or other types of anti wear compounds, can be quite high; some are pretty dark. Plus, the oil is on a quick trip to the exhaust pipe, and doesn't have to lubricate a tranny and clutch.

Multigrade oils are designed for maintaining a constant flow rate to plain bearings. I'm not convinced that they are really a good idea in a roller rod. I remember talking to a Porsche shop manager in Berkeley about oils and he said that the early Speedster roller crank engines were specified to run a straight 10 weight oil. Of course Americans knew better and used 30 and had rod problems; the answer to that was even heavier oil?.meanwhile the guys who used 10 [horrors!] would get 60 thousand miles or more with no problems. This was in an era when multigrades were under suspicion and straight 30 was universal. How can you convince a guy who just blew up his crank on 30 to switch to 10?

I'm not advising 10 in a GS; just that there's no point in getting into research into what oils work or don't, or why; just stick with what the guys not having problems are using.

 

[trippivot]

sorry guys I saw it on the horizon and should have known better. Porsche? 2 cycles? how does that apply to a 4 cycle 4 cylinder GS Suzuki using a slider clutch? can you say apples and oranges? geesh already - 1 more post today and I'm going to back work - on a race bike.

automotive spherical molecule oils get sheared to nothingness in a Suzuki GS that has a transmission bathed in a single oil - so motorcycle specific oils are like gear lubricants, wafer shaped. Harleys and your Porsche reference have separate engine oil and trans lube just like most ALL 2 cycles with 1 huge exception ,, 2 strokes BURN the roller crank lubricant - so a power valve in the exhaust is more important to a chemical designer than a roller bearing.

I do agree with ArttuH post 100% -- also like to add changing is dangerous if you don't do a 2 change flush before really racing it - that's when catastrophic failure is most likely to occur let alone changing the clutch tune. some have learned that the hard way - me? I listen to the champions.

so I have to ask John Park, what makes your slider clutch work best? for me it is a JASO spec 5W30 non D.O.T. ATV oil designed for 4 cycle solid lifter engine/trans combination type. 2nd choice is Brad Penn - like every other GS/Z/KZ dragbiker I know.

 

[Guest]

sorry guys I saw it on the horizon and should have known better. Porsche? 2 cycles? how does that apply to a 4 cycle 4 cylinder GS Suzuki using a slider clutch? can you say apples and oranges? geesh already - 1 more post today and I'm going to back work - on a race bike.

automotive spherical molecule oils get sheared to nothingness in a Suzuki GS that has a transmission bathed in a single oil - so motorcycle specific oils are like gear lubricants, wafer shaped. Harleys and your Porsche reference have separate engine oil and trans lube just like most ALL 2 cycles with 1 huge exception ,, 2 strokes BURN the roller crank lubricant - so a power valve in the exhaust is more important to a chemical designer than a roller bearing.

I do agree with ArttuH post 100% -- also like to add changing is dangerous if you don't do a 2 change flush before really racing it - that's when catastrophic failure is most likely to occur let alone changing the clutch tune. some have learned that the hard way - me? I listen to the champions.

so I have to ask John Park, what makes your slider clutch work best? for me it is a JASO spec 5W30 non D.O.T. ATV oil designed for 4 cycle solid lifter engine/trans combination type. 2nd choice is Brad Penn - like every other GS/Z/KZ dragbiker I know.

I don't have a 'slider clutch'. I was just trying to put some context into roller bearing cranks and how they don't have the same needs and problems as plain bearings. And I wanted to add that perhaps all oils - not just synthetics - can cause hydroplaning of crank rollers. The problem was around long before they became available.

 

[madmikeracing]

Thanx Guys. I never ran synthetic in anything but my 15 HP Snowblower. I have seen rusting inside engine camshafts that sit a lot from synthetic oils. This was on camshafts which are normally covered in oil!!! My specific question wasn't to do the synthetic vs dino oil debate at all. I was just told and read also use only 10-30 weight in my new slider clutch. Just wondered why? I prefer dino oils and like the delo 400 oil line. Also brad penn green stuff. Thanx Mike Hey where do I find a USD fork assembly for my 1150 project?