Slipping clutch or friggin fast bike?

[biker_guy]

I was just going around the block trying checking out some other problems with my 82 gs850. So I was messing with different amounts of throttle. I would gas it sometimes to take off faster or to keep it from dieing in any case when I gas it once it reaches a certain rpm the motor revs quite a bit. I don't really feel it pulling to much. So either I'm roasting my tire off or the clutch is slipping. I never saw any black marks, never heard the tire pealing out, or felt the bike torque weird in anyway so I'm thinking the clutch was slipping. I did change the oil and I put Castrol 10w-40 back in there. I'm new to motorcycles. The book said 10w-40. Is there a difference between motorcycle and car oil (I'm thinking not but I just want to be sure. Want to be sure that brand is ok too.) I'm in the US but the bike came from Canada so it reads 58xxx KM so I'm sure if the clutch hasn't been changed it probly needs to be. I do drive a stick but I've never had a clutch slip. I know what it's like when you run out of fluid but have never had one slip or need replacing.

 

[salty_monk]

Likely to be weak clutch springs.... replace with new OEM stock or get some aftermarket EBC or similar & run three of them with 3 of your existing ones.

Plates & steels should be fine at that mileage but you could scuff the steels with some wet & dry & then degrease re-fit in the order & direction which you took them out.

Dan

 

[Zook]

10-40 oil is fine. Don't use 10-30 or 5-30. Make sure the big number is 40 or better.
I'm with Salty Monk, sounds like your clutch is slipping and it's not due to oil.
Make sure the adjustment is correct.

 

[catbed]

did the oil you put in say "energy saving"? if so, change it immediately. its got anti-wear additives that wet clutches dont like. that could be your problem.

if it doesnt say "energy saving", its most likely weak springs. an easy job.

PS: 600th post...

 

[biker_guy]

it did not say energy saving but it said specifically anti-wear additives. So I guess I'll be changing that. it'll be tomorrow night or Wed. I won't even have a chance to be tempted to ride it before then. What brands do you guys use or do not have the additives? Will I need to change the filter again too? cause it'll still have that oil in it.

for gear oil I could not find straight 90w like the book said. I could find any "straight weight" gear oil. I put in 85w-140 or something like that. I know the book said 80w if running in really cold weather I couldn't find 90w anything so I though 85w would hit the middle.

One other question with the oil. I did a filter change too and like any vehicle with a filter change you have to turn the motor on the pump oil into the filter then top it off. So the peep hole level went down as it should and I topped of the oil. I noticed when the bike is running it shows almost no oil. Is that right? When I shut it off again the oil level is still correct.

 

[catbed]

many people around here use 5w-40 rotella T synthetic for diesel trucks.i use castrol motorcycle oil (10w-40) but will probably make the switch to synthetic sometime.

i forget what i run for gear oil but i think it is something like 85w so you shouldnt have a problem.

with oil and filter change, its close to 4 quarts to refill. with the engine running, you shouldnt see any oil in the window because it is elsewhere in the engine, doing its job.

 

[JayH]

Check the clutch cable adjustment at the clutch lever. Maybe the clutch adjustment is tight enough that there isn't enought slack on the cable?

Clutch wear is variable but even with the amount of commuting/city mileage that I have on my GS the clutch plates didn't have to be replaced until 80,000 miles.

 

[82Shafty]

I ran Castrol GTX 10W-40 with no problems as well as my Dad who has always run Cas 10-40.

When I switched over to Rotella 5-40 syn, it exposed weaker clutch springs and my clutch slipped... If you are rolling in second gear at around 4000 rpms and crack it and the tach goes way up and the bike isn't pulling then you have slippage.

New Suzi OEM clutch springs, new bolts, washers she was good to roll. I also scuffed up the steel plates with 220 grit sand paper.

I figured if it starts to slip again, then the fibers are old and hard and it's time for a fresh OEM set. I recently installed Motorcraft 15-40 from Wallymart. 5 quart jug for 9.97. The bike shifts smoother and the oil was specifically designed for the power stroke which churns the oil as bad as our bike transmissions.

Power Stroke injectors are hydraulicly operated and cavitated oil was causing all sorts of havoc; hence the Motorcraft 15W-40.

 

[Fast Doc]

Replace the clutch and the springs. It's the same amount of work, clutches are pretty cheap, and no extra gaskets are needed. You are there, get it done.

I had an 1100 Ninja years ago, and what I thought was clutch slippage was wheelspin. I think that would be less likely with the bike you describe.

BTW, I was happy to sell that Ninja. except for the engine, it was not a great bike.

 

[Zook]

Biker Guy your oil is okay, no need to change it.

All oils have anti-wear additives, it's the "energy conserving" oils that have friction modifiers that cause wet clutches to slip.
You can identify these oils two ways-one, the energy conserving "star" on the label and any oil with the viscosity of 30 wt or thinner, i.e. 10-30, 0-20, etc.

5-40, 10-40, 20-50, 10-60 (yikes!) is okay.

Yeah, M-G says to use 10-60 in some of their new bikes.

 

[Dave8338]

Yeah, M-G says to use 10-60 in some of their new bikes.

Must need it to take up space in their "tightly built" engines.

 

[BassCliff]

Hee Haw Howdy!

Hee Haw Howdy!

Hi Mr. biker_guy,

There's lots of GS850G lovin' right here in your very own mega-welcome!

Dear fellow GS rider,

Let it be known that on this day you are cordially and formally welcomed to the GSR Forum as a Junior Member in good standing with all the rights and privileges thereof. Further let it be known that your good standing can be improved with pictures (not you, your bike)![FONT=Arial, sans-serif] [/FONT]

Perhaps you've already seen these, but I like to remind all the new members. In addition to the carb rebuild series, I recommend visiting the In The Garage section via the GSR Homepage and check out the Stator Papers. There's also a lot of great information in the Old Q&A section. I have some documentation on my little BikeCliff website to help get you familiar with doing routine maintenance tasks (note that it is 850G-specific but many tasks are common to all GS bikes). Other "user contributed" informational sites include those of Mr. bwringer, Mr. tfb and Mr. robertbarr. And if your bike uses shims for valve adjustments, send an email to Mr. Steve requesting a copy of his Excel spreadsheet that helps you keep track of clearances, shim sizes and other service work.

These are some edited quotes from one of our dear beloved gurus, Mr. bwringer, with ideas on basic needs (depending on initial condition), parts, and accessories.
***********Quoted from Mr. bwringer************
Carburetor maintenance:

Replace the intake boot o-rings, and possibly the intake boots. Here's the procedure:
http://bwringer.com/gs/intakeorings.html
Here's an overview of what happens with this particular problem:
http://cycleorings.com/intake.html
You'll also want to examine the boots between the carbs and the airbox. There's a good chance these are OK, but check them over.
And finally, if things still aren't exactly right, you'll want to order a set of o-rings for BS carbs from the GS owner's best friend, Robert Barr:
http://cycleorings.com
Once you receive these rare rings of delight, then you'll want to thoroughly clean and rebuild your carburetors. Here are step-by-step instructions that make this simple:
http://thegsresources.com/gs_carbrebuild.htm
***********************************
Every GS850 (and most other models) has (or had) a set of well-known issues that MUST be addressed before you have a solid baseline for further troubleshooting. It's a vintage bike, and it's quite common (as in, every single GS850 I have had contact with) that there are multiple problems that have crept up and slowly gotten worse over the years. It's not like a newer vehicle, where there's generally one problem at a time.

These common issues are:

1. Intake O-rings (install NEW OEM or Viton only - common nitrile O-rings will quickly deteriorate from heat)
2. Intake Boots (install NEW -- these cannot be repaired)
3. Valve clearances (more important than most people think)
4. Carb/airbox boots
5. Airbox sealing
6. Air filter sealing
7. Petcock (install a NEW one)
8. On '79 models, install new points or Dyna electronic ignition (or at least verify that the old points are working correctly)
9. On all models, it's fairly common to have problems with the spark plug caps. These are $3 or $4 each, and often worth replacing if you're keeping the stock coils/wires.
10. Stock exhaust with NO leaks or holes -- good seals at the head and at the junctions underneath.
***************************************
OEM Parts/Online Fiches:

I would definitely double and triple the recommendations to use Cycle Recycle II and Z1 Enterprises as much as possible. These guys are priceless resources. Z1 tends to have slightly better prices, CRC2 has a wider range of goodies available. If you're near Indy and can bring in an old part to match, CRC2 has a vast inventory of used parts.
http://denniskirk.com - Put in your bike model and see what they have.
http://oldbikebarn.com - seems to be slowly regaining a decent reputation, but it's still caveat emptor. They don't have anything you can't get elsewhere at a better price anyway.
http://www.babbittsonline.com/ - Decent parts prices. Spendy shipping. Don't give you part numbers at all. Useful cross-reference if you obtain a part number elsewhere. Efficient service.
http://bikebandit.com - Fastest. Middlin' prices. Uses their own parts numbering system to obfuscate price comparisons -- can be very confusing for large orders. Cheapest shipping, so total cost usually isn't too bad.
http://flatoutmotorcycles.com - Slow. Cheapest parts prices, crazy shipping costs. Don't expect progress updates or much communication. Real Suzuki part numbers.
http://alpha-sports.com - Exorbitant parts prices. Different type of fiche interface that's quite useful at times, especially with superceded part numbers. Real parts numbers. Shipping cost and speed unknown due to insane, unholy pricing.

Stainless Bolts, Viton o-rings, metric taps, dies, assorted hard-to-find supplies and materials, etc:

http://mcmaster.com - Fast, cheap shipping, good prices. No order minimum, but many items like bolts come in packs of 25 or 50. Excellent resource.
http://motorcycleseatcovers.com - Great quality, perfect fit (on original seat foam), and available for pretty much every bike ever made. Avoid the textured vinyl -- it's perforated.
http://newenough.com - You DO have riding gear, don't you? Great clearances, always outstanding prices and impeccable service.
***************End Quote**********************
Additional parts/info links:

GSR Forum member Mr. duaneage has great used upgraded Honda regulator/rectifiers for our bikes. Send him a PM.
New electrical parts:
http://stores.ebay.com/RMSTATOR or http://www.rmstator.com/
http://www.ricksmotorsportelectrics.com/index.php
http://www.electrosport.com/
For valve cover and breather cover gaskets, I recommend Real Gaskets (reusable silicon):
http://www.realgaskets.com
The Rice Paddy (salvage/used)
http://www.ricepaddymotorcycles.com
Carolina Cycle
http://www.carolinacycle.com
Ron Ayers Motorsports
http://www.ronayers.com
MR Cycles
http://www.mrcycles.com
Moto Grid
http://www.motogrid.com
If all else fails, try this:
http://www.used-motorcycle-parts.org/
Used bike buying checklists:
http://www.amadirectlink.com/roadride/Riderresc/checklist.asp
http://www.clarity.net/~adam/buying-bike.html
Lots of good info/pictures here:
http://www.suzukicycles.org
http://www.cyclechaos.com/wiki/Motorcycle_Wiki
http://www.bikepics.com
Basic motorcycle maintenance/repair:
http://www.dansmc.com/mc_repaircourse.htm


Thanks for joining us. Keep us informed of your progress. There's lots of good folk with good experience here.

Thank you for your indulgence,

BassCliff
(The unofficial GSR greeter)

 

[SqDancerLynn1]

I have used castrol 10-40 before, should be fine. Most likley it is the spring. You might also want to replace the 6 bolts while you have it apart

 

[biker_guy]

I was really excited about fixing my bike so after work I went straight to the store and got some different oil. I didn't come home and read all of your replies first. I wish I did cause you guys are right. Where do I get these parts? I'm guessing every one pretty much gets stuff online now cause with just the few parts I have need as of yet are not in stock (suzuki dealer only bike parts place around here for a suzuki) or floating around on an old bike.

 

[82Shafty]

I go through www.prosourcemotorsports.com

I just ordered new fibers yesterday.

 

[bonanzadave]

I hope you dont have an issue like John....
http://www.thegsresources.com/_forum/showthread.php?t=127623&highlight=SPLINES

 

[biker_guy]

That makes me wonder. If I have weak springs shouldn't the clutch be pretty easy to pull? There are times when off the bike when I go to start it and the wheel is turned all the way I have the use both hands to until the clutch reaches that "breaking" point after that it's easy to hold. All the other times I'm driving it it's not so hard I need both hands but it does feel pretty firm. So if I have weak springs would new springs make the clutch even harder to pull? Also I did loosen up the clutch cable a tad. Someone said something about that so I check in the book to have the right amount of play in the lever. Something is still slipping but the adjustment did help.

 

[biker_guy]

Okay well I just had an experience at the suzuki dealer. I was able to get the gasket and the springs for the clutch. But they are the people that know EVERYTHING if you know what I mean. They said "we can get you the factory parts but we'd have to order them. You just have an old bike." I asked you don't have any after market parts? "They don't make any after market parts for that bike any more it's just too old." So my guess is they don't have the internet and if they don't have it and you ask about it you're an idiot. Don't try and ask them about a jacket they don't have. "This here is the best jacket money can buy." Ok well just wondering if you had one that I saw like this "Why would you want that!..." Well hey look at the time thanks for the parts. So anyway... because of the 4th I should have the parts in about a week and we'll see what's what.

Is there an article about adjust the clutch cable? I have the gap in the handle the way the book says. I had the bike on the center stand clutch in I popped it in first and was going to take it off the center stand. For some reason I looked back and the wheel was sping. Slowly but spinning and the clutch was all the way in.

 

[tkent02]

Is there an article about adjust the clutch cable? I have the gap in the handle the way the book says. I had the bike on the center stand clutch in I popped it in first and was going to take it off the center stand. For some reason I looked back and the wheel was sping. Slowly but spinning and the clutch was all the way in.

They just spin like that sometimes, doesn't matter. If you can stop it with the brake and it stays stopped for a bit before it starts to turn it is released, just a little friction or something.
If your clutch is hard to pull you have a problem, most likely a bad cable or it is routed incorrectly, a kink or long bend will make it hard to pull.

 

[Buffalo Bill]

I got worried about oil too, because the manuals recomend oils with discontinued ratings. I did a lot of google research about motor oils, Zook is right. I now use True Value 10-40 oil, because it's only $2.15 a qt. with no special additives.
Today I noticed my clutch plates slipping when I gave it gas in 5th at 55mph. The rpm would jump up for 1 sec. then go back down, but it stopped doing that after the engine got hot, about 10min. later. It's allways done this, It did this when I had the $4 motorcycle oil in it too, so I'm staying with the $2 oil.
I'm beleaving the weak springs idea, and I'm going to look into that some.