So close... so far.

[SeanMora77]

First I would like to publicly apologize to Steve for losing my cool regarding my last fork oil post... I was in the doldrums with seemingly no light at the end of the tunnel and I am sorry for getting riled up about it. You have been very helpful. OK, here's the problem. I have treated my tank with por-15, fully rebuilt the carbs and petcock, installed a new igniter box and ignition coils. New boots and O-rings, new boots on the intake and filter. Dialectric grease on all electrical fittings... It has been a year now that I've been working on this bike and just the other day finally completed re-assembly and she does not want to start... I am getting spark on all four, fuel to the carbs... no start. Even with a light spray of ether. It will turn over, just wont start. As to not leave any details out, the last time it ran I discovered my petcock was bad via fuel in the oil. Could this have caused permanent damage? It wasn't run long that way but Im in the dark as to what occurs when this happens. Also, the only thing I have not done yet is to adjust the valve clearances and this is ONLY because it ran fine before. I have the valve cover gasket and fully plan to adjust them after I get her running again. As always, thanks in advance for any help.

 

[koolaid_kid]

You do realize you will be lambasted by posting that you have not adjusted the valves?
To answer your question, no, fuel in the oil will not permanently damage the engine. Might hurt its feelings, but it gets over it.

An engine only needs 3 things to run:
Air
Fuel
Spark
Let's assume that the engine is in time, both cams and ignition. That leaves fuel, assuming that the carb intakes are not blocked so it is getting air.
First, even if the fuel bowl levels are incorrect, a shot of ether should get it to fire, although not run. Very curious.
Second, since you mention new o-rings, may we assume that you rebuilt the carbs yourself? Using carb dip, compressed air, etc.?
Third, when you attempt to start it, have you checked the plugs afterwards? If so, are they wet? Black?

Thanks, answering these questions might give us a starting point at assisting you.

 

[spyug]

First off, try and relax ( hard I know). You haven't done any permanent damage with fuel in the oil. It would take years for any effect on bearings and gears and would do nothing to stop an engine firing unless there was enough fluid that it swamped the cylinders.

Hard starting can be down to valves needing adjustment as well as improper fuel/ air mixture and weak spark. Just because it ran before with the valves perhaps not adjusted, doesn't mean it will this time with new coils and clean carbs. I would adjust the valves to rule that out as well but you also should double check your coil voltage.

You may have spark but it may not be enough, especially if the carbs are pushing too much fuel. Its a balancing act.You need to check your battery and coil voltage. If the battery is old or won't hold its charge you may find it turns over but doesn't send enough voltage to the coils to produce a hot enough spark as well.

Fully charge the battery and check the voltage. Hopefully you will have better than 12.5 + volts. Then check the voltage at the positive on the coil (with the key on but not cranking). Ideally they should be the same voltage but more likely will be up to 1 volt of a variance. If you have more than 1 volt difference or the battery drops its voltage quickly as you crank you will have a problem starting. The battery is then too weak to turn the engine over and provide for a strong spark. The coil relay mod we speak of is a good solution to overcome this difference between coil and battery voltage ( details in the archives or on Cliff's site).

In addition to under voltage to the coils, the plug caps can contribute to weak spark as over time they can become too resistant. There should be something in the neighbourhood of 3 to 5 ohms resistance at the caps but that can climb. So if you suspect this change the caps as well. Fairly cheap at around $7 each.

On a new rebuild or after freshly rebuilt carbs or starting after a long hibernation, even with a good fresh battery, extra help is often needed. You may need to crank for a couple of minutes to get it to fire. In this case boost it from an automotive or marine battery as they have more cranking amps. If you use the battery in your cage make sure the engine is not running or it could overpower and burn out your bike's electrics.

Have a look at these causes first. It could also be these combined with improperly cleaned or adjusted carbs but I've found most often it is not enough spark.

Check into this and see where you get.

Good luck,
Spyug

 

[SeanMora77]

I have had it fire twice. Once with a shot of ether and once without, and thats it. Just a split second each time. I did rebuild the carbs myself, I kept all the original jets as they were not damaged, just discolored but clean as a whistle. The only parts I used from the rebuild kits were the float bowl gaskets and the seats and pins, which were the same size as the originals. I have not checked the plugs however,"new plugs too btw". I am at work at the moment and will be here all day so I wont be able to check the plugs until tomorrow. I will post results as soon as I get them. Thanks

 

[koolaid_kid]

You can visually inspect for weak spark. Blue to white, good. Yellow to red/orange, weak. Pretty easy to do in dim lighting.

 

[tom203]

Since you installed new ignitor and coils, make sure left coil is firing 1 and 4, right coil 2 and 3. Make sure your ignitor to coil wiring is correct- review wiring diagram off Basscliff's- easy to switch stuff around. Fuel + air+ compression+ spark (at right time) should at least fire.

 

[uk gs nut]

non start

non start

No one has asked about compression ? have the rings stuck?. Put a few drops of redex or similar down the plug holes and try again. If there is spark and fuel with compression, and timed correctley it will fire. good luck.

 

[Rover]

Before you get to complicated stuff make sure you prime and fill the carbs.

 

[Steve]

First I would like to publicly apologize to Steve for losing my cool regarding my last fork oil post...

Apology accepted.

It has been a year now that I've been working on this bike and just the other day finally completed re-assembly and she does not want to start...

And this surprises you ... how?

What measures did you take before parking it for a year? :-k

Also, the only thing I have not done yet is to adjust the valve clearances and this is ONLY because it ran fine before.

Typical of any part of any vehicle, there is a time when it stops working. All the systems have to work together, too. If one system is compromised a bit, it might be masked by the others, and you will not realize that it is compromised. When a second system is compromised, there is a chance that the engine will not run.

Since it has been a year since the bike has been run, I am going to say that the carbs need to be cleaned out. If you previously replaced all the o-rings, you probably won't need to do them again, but you will probably need to dip the carbs to clean them FULLY again.

If your valves were also adjusted, they might not have helped the carb situation, but properly-tuned (and clean) carbs can mask a problem with mis-adjusted valves. It's possible that you only think they were OK, but you haven't checked them, so you don't really know.

Clean the carbs, adjust the valves and report back.

[/snark]

.

 

[SeanMora77]

Thanks everyone, I checked the plugs after trying to crank and they are dry and pristene. Im going to clean the carbs again, when I rebuilt them I didn't have my compressor so I wasnt able to blow out the orifices with compressed air. I didn't think this would come back to bite me in the rear because the last time I cleaned them I did. Hey, we live and learn from our mistakes... I just hope this is the problemray:. I'm not going to be able to get at it until tomorrow but I will report back when Im done. Thanks again guys, your experience and advice are priceless to me.

 

[Guest]

Okay, just gotta ask you this, you didn't leave the petcock in the tank when you treated it did you?

 

[mike_of_bbg]

With dry plugs it seems your issue is most likely fuel-related. However, Sypug gives good advice. Weak spark makes for hard starting. AND tight valves makes for hard starting, too. Unless you have multiple cans of Berryman's it's going to take 4 days to clean the carbs so go ahead and do the valve checks and test the ignition system. The biggest clue that a weak ignition is holding you back is if it only seems to want to sputter right as you let off the starter (once the starter drain is gone the spark gets stronger instantly and fires hotter but you lose momentum and it just sputters).

One correction to Spyug's info though - I think he was thinking about the coil primary when he said 3-5 Ohms. Stock plug caps are about 10kOhms each, NGKs are ~5kOhms. The coil secondary should be in the 12-14kOhm neighborhood (on its own, no caps). So when you test coils from cap to cap you should be in the 32-35kOhms neighborhood with stock caps and 22-25kOhms with NGKs. When plug caps go bad resistance tends to jump.

 

[SeanMora77]

No sir, I did not leave the petcock in when I treated the tank. I bought clear fuel line as well, so Im sure I'm getting fuel to the carbs. Just not from them. I am in the process of re-cleaning them again as we speak. Also, today is the day Im going to adjust my valves. A little nervy about it, but the tutorial on Basscliffs site are pretty detailed... very curious as to where the valves are set. I'm looking at another week easy. Hopefully It will be ready in time for bikeweek, I live in the Daytona area. I will report back when Im done. Thanks again.

 

[Steve]

Also, today is the day Im going to adjust my valves. A little nervy about it, but the tutorial on Basscliffs site are pretty detailed... very curious as to where the valves are set.

I just sent you a copy of the newest version of my spreadsheet.

Hope it helps.

.

 

[SeanMora77]

Thank you Steve, and thank you everyone who has been kindly enough to bestow your knowledge upon me... Gentlemen, yet another GS has been resurrected from the grave! She is purring like a kitten, it's been a long journey to get here and it was worth every drop of sweat and bloody knuckle on the way.

 

[BassCliff]

Hi,

And there was much rejoicing!!!!

Thank you for your indulgence,

BassCliff