Soldering Stator Wires

[cowboyup3371]

Last week, I posted in my project thread that one of the stator wires broke near the stator itself. Last night, I pulled the covering back and saw these wires seemed to have been soldered before and the break was right at that solder joint.

I thought I'd had the money to buy a new stator on payday but instead bought things for my step-daughter to start track. Now, as it stands, money for a new stator won't be available until April but I'm itching to get this bike back on the road once the snow clears.

With that in mind, I'd like to try to re-solder each wire together. But as I haven't done much soldering (once at work when someone showed me how a few months ago), I'm a little nervous. Will soldering work to reconnect these wires? How do I know if my joint is good enough? Will I encounter problems with it providing power to the battery?

If it is something I can do, will this setup from Harbor Freight work?

http://www.harborfreight.com/180-watt-industrial-soldering-gun-4328.html

Or should I get something more like this:

http://www.harborfreight.com/30-watt-120-volt-soldering-iron-47887.html

 

[bwringer]

Sorry dude, that stator is toast.

All that char is from overheated and melted insulation. It got hot enough to melt the solder, so soldering the wires together is the least of your problems.

 

[Nessism]

Soldering should be fine. I'd get the soldering iron, but look for a cheap Weller instead. http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc...=10053&langId=-1&keyword=weller&storeId=10051

Clean off the wire of all oil, then abraid the surface to clean the metal. Use regular electrical solder and it should be fine.

EDIT: Brian is right that the stator looks cooked. Hope it's just the photo though...

 

[cowboyup3371]

Thanks all. PM replied to Brian

 

[tkent02]

It does look cooked, does it check out OK electrically? I know it worked fine before you took it apart, but it looks fried. If it is still good, here's a few tips for soldering. Get the wires clean, and get a good mechanical connection by twisting, or using a quality crimp connector (not the cheap plastic covered Chinese crap at Autozone) Ideally the wires will stay connected even if the solder melts away. Maybe that someone at work will solder it correctly for a six pack or something? Soldering is easy to learn but that's not an easy solder joint, and it's kind of critical.

If it were my bike, I would crimp it correctly with aircraft crimp connectors and not solder it at all, but that's just me.

 

[duaneage]

I would resolder it and put it back in. Stators are expensive, gaskets are not. If it was powering the bike before it broke then it's a mechanical failure.

I would use a metal crimp inside on top of a solder attempt, although the solder might not be necessary if the metal crimp is strong. Insulate with two layers of heatshrink tubing.

 

[Steve]

Above all, remember one thing: solder is NOT what holds the joint together.

As tkent said, "Get the wires clean, and get a good mechanical connection by twisting, ..." Although solder does have some mechanical retention qualities, its primary function is to coat the mechanical joint to provide protection against corrosion.

I have no idea what the temperature is in the stator while it is running, but consider that it is cooled by the oil, which easily runs about 200 degrees. Solder melts at about 360. As tkent says later, "Ideally the wires will stay connected even if the solder melts away."

.

 

[tom203]

That cajun stator doesn't inspire confidence and fiddling with soldering in a high temp enviroment is strike two. PM me, I got a stator out of 81 550 L (supposedly) that tests good resistance wise and still has the deluxe suzuki bullet connectors!

 

[cowboyup3371]

Thanks Tom. Bwringer already offered up a stator that he's willing to send and work out a deal on.

I appreciate the advice from everyone and if anything, maybe I'll still pick up that soldering iron you mentioned Ed just to practice.

Thank you all again.

 

[bwringer]

When you get the stator I sent, take a photo of the two next to each other.

Also, notice that it doesn't smell like a chemical waste dump on fire, and that the epoxy hasn't turned to charcoal...

 

[GSexpress]

Sorry guys, I just had to chime in.

NEVER EVER AT ANY TIME SOLDER WIRES TOGETHER THAT GO INSIDE THE ENGINE.

Particularly stator wires!

It's not the engine....it's the amperage draws that go through those wires during high load and max charging that creates more heat than the solder can survive. You then have little balls of solder floating around in your oil!

You must use a heavy duty crimp sleave and be absolutely sure it's crimped so that it can't come off. If the copper wire has been subjected to too much heat it can become brittle and will break off again no matter what you do. So don't even bother with a unit like the overheated one in the pictures. You don't want meatal bits floating around in the engine, even if they're soft lead or copper.

 

[duaneage]

Sorry guys, I just had to chime in.

NEVER EVER AT ANY TIME SOLDER WIRES TOGETHER THAT GO INSIDE THE ENGINE.

Particularly stator wires!

It's not the engine....it's the amperage draws that go through those wires during high load and max charging that creates more heat than the solder can survive. You then have little balls of solder floating around in your oil!

You must use a heavy duty crimp sleave and be absolutely sure it's crimped so that it can't come off. If the copper wire has been subjected to too much heat it can become brittle and will break off again no matter what you do. So don't even bother with a unit like the overheated one in the pictures. You don't want meatal bits floating around in the engine, even if they're soft lead or copper.

I really can't agree with you. Solder melts at 360 and above and the wires from the stator don't carry near enough current through the small amount of resistance at the solder joint to cause a problem.

In order for heat from current flow to be generated there must be a resistance capable of opposing the current and converting the electrical energy into heat. A molex connector with dirty pins presents an opportunity to do so and gives you the melted connectors we all have seen. The dirt and resulting resistance facilitate the heat process.

A soldered joint, particularly one done well, offers so little additional resistance through the cross section that the AC current flowing through it will not generate enough heat to melt it. And if your oil on the stator side is at 360 degrees or higher you have bigger problems.

The mechanical crimp I recommended is the way to go and soldering it won't be a problem, especially if it is double heat shrink protected from the oil.

 

[Nessism]

How do the stator manufacturers do it? The winding wire is different from the connecting leads so they must be joined in some way. I don't think they are crimped but I could be wrong.

 

[duaneage]

How do the stator manufacturers do it? The winding wire is different from the connecting leads so they must be joined in some way. I don't think they are crimped but I could be wrong.

Depends on the stator. I've seen a few different types and some were soldered and used crimps. I would crimp and solder it then protect it and not worry about it.

 

[1_v8_merc]

I crimp it, solder it, then wrap it, oh my!

 

[koolaid_kid]

They wind them together to maximize power transfer, solder them to insure the connection stays in place, and then cover them with a very strong heat resistant covering to make sure nothing comes loose. The covering is also a sealant and prevents the wires from coming unraveled and also prevents any solder from going into the engine lubricant. It is not for the weak minded and not easily reproduced. But it can and has been reproduced on the kitchen table.
AFA the mechanics, you have a 18-19 gauge solid strand copper wire coming off each stator pole (3 total). For the factory 18 gauge stranded wires, you have to figure out how to wind the two together to maximize power transfer and minimize power loss (almost all in heat). It takes me about one half an inch or more of winding to accomplish this efficiently.

 

[GSexpress]

I really can't agree with you. Solder melts at 360 and above and the wires from the stator don't carry near enough current through the small amount of resistance at the solder joint to cause a problem.

In order for heat from current flow to be generated there must be a resistance capable of opposing the current and converting the electrical energy into heat. A molex connector with dirty pins presents an opportunity to do so and gives you the melted connectors we all have seen. The dirt and resulting resistance facilitate the heat process.

A soldered joint, particularly one done well, offers so little additional resistance through the cross section that the AC current flowing through it will not generate enough heat to melt it. And if your oil on the stator side is at 360 degrees or higher you have bigger problems.

The mechanical crimp I recommended is the way to go and soldering it won't be a problem, especially if it is double heat shrink protected from the oil.

I base my information on years of dealership level experience and knowledge obtained later as an electronic tech. Heat buildup in tightly wound wires, as in the Three Phaze Alternator,can be considerable and is additive to the temperature of the oil it is bathed in. I have seen first hand such repairs fail and found lead balls floating in the oil and stuck in the filter. These things don't discolor and burn up the insulating coating from engine temperatures.

A crimp conector without solder is best, but only if the windings aren't old and discolored making the wires brittile. You don't want to take the risk of it breaking off and getting into the engine. How do you think it broke in the first place?

 

[duaneage]

I've seen lead balls in oil too, from the babbitt in crank bearings that failed. Now there is some serious heat that can blue rod ends.
We can agree to disagree, there are examples of both approaches in production stators.

 

[bakalorz]

I really can't agree with you. Solder melts at 360 and above and the wires from the stator don't carry near enough current through the small amount of resistance at the solder joint to cause a problem.

In order for heat from current flow to be generated there must be a resistance capable of opposing the current and converting the electrical energy into heat. A molex connector with dirty pins presents an opportunity to do so and gives you the melted connectors we all have seen. The dirt and resulting resistance facilitate the heat process.

A soldered joint, particularly one done well, offers so little additional resistance through the cross section that the AC current flowing through it will not generate enough heat to melt it. And if your oil on the stator side is at 360 degrees or higher you have bigger problems.

The mechanical crimp I recommended is the way to go and soldering it won't be a problem, especially if it is double heat shrink protected from the oil.

I'm late to the thread, but just thought I'd add one thing.

First, I don't really know whether this is a good application for soldering or not, so I won't weigh in on that.

But IF you are going to solder, I would suspect you would want to use silver solder ...
Silver solder has a significantly higher melting point (over 450 deg)
(its also slightly mechanically stronger)

Its pretty common, in the US you can buy it at Radio shack.

 

[salty_monk]

I picked up a Kawasaki stator that fits the bigger bikes (ask Chef1366) for $15 shipped. Keep it as a spare. Not sure if it fits the 550.

Well done Brian for shipping one over, I had come to offer my Kawasaki one!