Starter clutch help

[Anonymous]

I've got some nasty, clunky, clangy noises coming from the starter clutch area of my '82 GS850GL when at a low idle. I drained the oil and took the cover off to have a look. It seems like the starter idle gear (between the starter and the starter clutch) is sliding around on its pin. I did a test by pulling the gear out as far as it would go without taking out the pin, and then putting the cover back on to see how far it pushes the gear back in. I then took the cover off again and checked to see if the gear could still go further in. It still had 1/16 of an inch to go. If I slide it back and forth, so it hits the engine case, it really does sound like the noise I hear at idle.

The scematic in my Clymer manual shows a washer on either side of the idle gear, which I don't have. This seems to make sense, as the addition of the washers would probably take up the extra 1/16 inch of slack. I decided to double check with the Bike Bandit scematic for my bike, to see if it might be anything else, and it shows no washers at all, just like mine is now.

Does anybody have any thoughts on this? It does seem like washers will do the trick, and it seems there should be washers there just so the gear isn't rubbing stationary metal, but is there something else that should keep the gear from sliding around that I'm missing?

Thanks for any help.

Adam

 

[KEITH KRAUSE]

Hi. My '79 GS1000E has a washer on both sides of the idle gear. Like you said, the softer engine casing should not contact the gear, the washers prevent that and take the wear. If you look close, you may be able to see signs that the washers were once there such as very thin lines or grooves in the pin or shiny marks on the sides of the gear. Regardless, I think they should be there. Did you just pick up the bike?

 

[Anonymous]

Some schnook had left the inner washer out on my bike. I don't remember what I was doing when i noticed that. The washer was not 1/16 thick but less than half that. I scrounged a flat steel washer from the mechanic at the Honda shop.It was thinner than the stock one but worked fine. BTW there never was any noise from mine. Also I believe that i remember the parts diagram showing that both spacers were the same part number. I am not sure though.

 

[Anonymous]

The 1/16 is the total slack I measured without any washers, so I figured each washer would be about 1/32. Maybe yours didn't make any noise because it had half the slack mine has. Why would the scematic for my '82 show no washers at all, when clearly it needs them?

So I need washers. Do I really need to get them from a mechanic/auto parts store? Couldn't I just use some stainless steel ones from a hardware store?

 

[KEITH KRAUSE]

The 1/16 is the total slack I measured without any washers, so I figured each washer would be about 1/32. Maybe yours didn't make any noise because it had half the slack mine has. Why would the scematic for my '82 show no washers at all, when clearly it needs them?

So I need washers. Do I really need to get them from a mechanic/auto parts store? Couldn't I just use some stainless steel ones from a hardware store?

Your Clymer manual showed the washers. The Bike Bandit manual schematic was not complete. I did'nt measure mine when I had them off,but I remember they were about 1/32'' thick and were very hard, looked like stainless steel. The outside diameter was about 1'' (??)maybe a little bigger and of course the inside diameter was just enough to slide over the pin, very little play(if it matters).Home improvement stores have stainless washers.

 

[Anonymous]

Okay, I tracked down a bunch of different washers and found two that were a nice tight fit, and just a hair over 1/32 thick. They were a little too thick, so I ground one down, installed everything, put the oil back in, and 'click'. The starter wouldn't turn the engine. I thought maybe the battery had got too low, so I tried charging and jumping to no avail. I figured the idle gear must be getting pinched, so I drained the oil again, pulled the starter clutch cover, and took off the thinner washer and left the thicker one on the outside of the idle gear. Bolted everything back together, and again the starter wouldn't turn the gears. I tried it with just the thinnest washer, about 1/32 or less, and had the same result. If I loosen some of the bolts directly around the idle gear area of the cover the engine will turn, but once I tighten them down I get nothing. I even tried greasing up the washer, but that didn't work either.

In my earlier test to determine the amount of slack, I never actually tightened the bolts down. So now I'm thinking maybe there aren't supposed to be any washers in there, and the Bike Bandit scematic of the '82 is correct. The Clymer manual shows washers, but it also covers '79-'84. Bike Bandit show washers on '80-'81, but not on '82-'83.

If I can't fit any washers in there, meaning there isn't the slack that I thought there was, what could be making the noise? Is it something to do with the starter clutch?

 

[Anonymous]

I'm sorry, but I am going to hijack your thread...how difficult is it to replace the bolts which hold the starter clutch in place??? Mine have either backed off or snapped....with stator cover off, I can see the starter engage and spin properly, but engine does not crank. It will push start well, though....

 

[Anonymous]

According to the manual, you need some special Suzuki slide hammer tool in order to get the starter clutch off.

 

[KEITH KRAUSE]

fx2ooo. It seems there should be washers in there,but maybe not. Did you just get the bike or have you owned it awhile? If you've owned it awhile,did it run OK earlier and now suddenly you have the problem? The only 2 things I can think of if the noise has anything to do with the gear or pin, is: Should the pin only go in one way? Or, did you flip the gear around when you put it back on and maybe this makes an alignment problem? Just wild guesses.

 

[Anonymous]

There just can't be any washers in there. I ground one down to almost nothing, and that gear will not turn if there's even the thinnist washer on there. I think my whole slack theory was screwed up because I never tightened the cover down. I don't think there ever was any slack.

The pin is the same either way (tried that), and the gear can only go on on way. I did a little more tuning with the idle mixture screws and idle adjustment knob, and with a decent engine idle there isn't much noise coming from the starter clutch area.

So, my new theory is it was the engine idle itself that was causing the problem. When the rpm's dipped too low the starter clutch would start to engage as if the engine wasn't quite running yet. With the rpm's teetering around a bit, the clutch engaging a bit then disengaging, I think the idle gear was just getting knocked back and forth a bit.

It really sounds much better now. In answer to your question, I've never ridden this bike much. I picked it up in pretty bad condition, after it had been sitting for who knows how long, with the intention of fixing it up. I rebuilt the engine and carbs, and changed all the oils. I'm moving to Norway in a week, so I've run out of time for anything else on it. Now that everything's sorted at least, it will go onto ebay.

 

[KEITH KRAUSE]

It's interesting why some models have 2 washers and some have none.Oh well. Good luck in Norway.Don't know where you're at now but you might want to take a jacket? :lol:

 

[Alan Schlosser]

I just checked my parts CD for the 1100G motor and it shows a washer on both sides of the idler gear. The Suzuki part number is 09160-13003. You may want to see if you can pick these up at a dealer. I can't believe that the 850 and 1100 motors wouldn't be similar.

 

[Anonymous]

I think there are a lot of minor differences between the engines from '81-'84. They seem to be mostly small things though, like adding more bolts to the head cover in the middle of the '82 year. If you look in the manual supplement, there are quite a few small changes. I'm not suprised.

And believe me, there can't be any washers on the '82 850. It just won't work that way.

 

[Anonymous]

I quickly scanned all this so forgive if I re-ask a question, but do you have the gasket in place. I heard of trying to do without (just using silicon) which would be a bad thing on this cover.
If the setup is anything like the 1100 I just can't see how it would not normally have the washers there, it would eat that facing pretty quick otherwise.
Is it possible that the idler shaft has a very minor bend or wear that causes it to bind up?

 

[Anonymous]

It has a new gasket on. The bike has about 13k on it (like 1 mile since rebuild), and there is no evidence of wear around the idle gear or pin. The pin is perfectly straight. Another reason I know the washers won't fit in there, and I think I mentioned this, is because if I don't tighten down the bolts around the idle gear area of the cover, and it has the washer, the starter will turn the engine. As soon as I tightnen down those bolts there is too much pressure on the idle gear. The extra resistance, along with the normal resistance of the engine, is too much for the starter motor.

I'm confident that there are no washers here on the '82-'83 GS850. Hopefully one day someone on this list with the same model and year will end up in this area of their bike, and will be able to confirm this for us. Or if anyone is going by their bike shop some time, ask to look at the microfiche. Make sure it's specific to the '82 GS850 (not '80-'82 or anything like that), and I'll bet you there are no washers.

 

[Anonymous]

Does it look like this
http://www.bikebandit.com/partsbandit/showschematic.asp?dept_id=150346

Which does not show the two thrust washers I was expecting. But does have one closest to the block. The picture makes it appear that it has four grooves machined in it.

FYI - Got to the above from here http://www.bikebandit.com/PartsBand...model_dept_id=109443&model_dept_name=GS850(Z)

The fiche lookup on BikeBandit is a great tool (if your model bike has clear pictures, a lot of them are unreadable).
Hope this helps.

 

[Anonymous]

Exactly. I mentioned this in an earlier post, and some people thought the
Bike Bandit scematic was just wrong.

I use Bike Bandit all the time just to look at the scematics. I've never actually bought anything from them though. Hope they stay in business.

 

[Anonymous]

I use Bike Bandit all the time just to look at the scematics. I've never actually bought anything from them though. Hope they stay in business.

Me too. Hope they don't have anyone that works there frequenting this site .
Problem I have is their 1100E fiche are pretty much unreadable.

Anyway, sorry wasn't any help (just rehashed everything that was gone over before ). Maybe one of the 850 aficionados will jump in and solve this.

 

[Anonymous]

82 gs850gl left side noise

82 gs850gl left side noise

i have the same noise on my 82 gs850gl,(purchased last week,12k on it). based on info read on this site, i pulled the starter clutch off today. i also do not have any washers on either side of my starter idler gear. looking at the rollers,plungers,springs, and allen bolts, i cant see anything wrong. maybe the springs are weak, i dont know. i ordered all the parts just mentioned but now am wondering about the idle speed you mentioned. i believe the bike should be able to idle very low without starter clutch noise. my parts should be in by friday and i'll re-assemble asap. i wish we knew for sure if this is the problem. today the suzuki shop used a slide hammer to remove the rotor/starter clutch. i read somewhere that that method can stress the crankshaft, is this true? ps:my noise was mostly when in neutral and the clutch released.[/url][/list]

 

[Anonymous]

Finally a bike we can make a comparison to. My noise was also in neutral with the clutch released. Once in gear, even if just on the center stand and going under its own power, the noise was pretty much gone. I'll be interested to see what you find out by installing a new starter clutch. Please post once you're done.