Starter Clutch? Woes 82 GS1000 Katana (long)

[Can_O_Tuna]

I've been bringing my bike back to life after my garage and 7 feet of snow collapsed on it a couple of years ago. The poor thing had never been kept outside and it was in need of some serious TLC. I got lucky; the most serious damage was a coconut size dent in the tank.

I spent the last two weeks getting it back into shape. Lots of cleaning and wire brushing, new clutch, fresh battery and ground cable, carbs apart and cleaned, chain and sprockets, brakes, plugs, fresh oil, tank fixed etc.

The last time I started it before the collapse it took a two or three pushes on the starter button (clicked first) to engage the starter, so I figured I probably needed a solenoid. I put a new one from a craftsman tractor (thanks vapourman!)

Last night I put some gas in the tank and excitedly hit the starter button.... NOTHING...S@#T...So I just crossed the terminals at the solenoid and I got the dreaded whirring sound (starter motor is turning, but not the engine).

I have been reading all of the past posts on the subject. The large gear behind the rotor did turn both ways so it looks like I'm in for some more surgery. I found no screw heads inside the stator cover when I had it off. Can I safely bump start it without doing more damage?

Could it possibly be something else?? I have a small wiring problem (starter button) but this looks like an all day sucker to fix....

 

[bybowtie]

If it utrns both ways its your clutch my friend...If your screws are snapped well thats a pain drill and tap get new ones...If not then you may just need a new set of springs and rollers(approx 15.00 check bikebandit) The hard part is getting it off... I made a tool from a thick rubber strap wrech and a c-clamp. Took a !/2 breaker bar and deep socket(mine was a 7/8 yours may differ) and have at it...
Once off you should be able to see the problem...Judging buy the fact that it seems your starter is bound I d say your screws migt be bent or snapped.
It is really easy to understand (I had a difficult tim until Earl my wife and I sat a talked about it and realized my crank was puked, fixed it a vroom)
Take your time get a manual (really go to Bikebandit and get adiagram)
Wores case you may haveto replace the whole clutch assy(if its really torn up, not likely) at about 100-110..I would examine it first before sheeling out and special ordering parts....
Let us know what you find

 

[lhanscom]

Most likely it's the bolts. I went to a local dealer, and they pulled off the rotor magnet with their puller for $10, then bought some high grade allen head bolts and put it back together. When drilling out the bolts in the magnet do so from the inside of the magnet, not from where they broke off. This helps center the drill bit, as the tip of the bolts is concave, and when the bit bites a bit, (say thay 5 times fast) it may unscrew the bolt for you. Get the new springs and rollers, I have a theory that the springs weaken, or break, causing the rollers to slip a bit before they grab, putting alot of shearing force on the 3 bolts, eventually the bolts break. Make sure you use loctite on everything you put together, or they will come loose at 10,000 rpm. Also get a new gasket for your stator cover, you'll probably destroy the one that's on there when you take it off.

Good luck.

 

[Can_O_Tuna]

thanks again guys.... can I push start it without any more damage? I feel like a kid who was just told that they canceled Christmas ...


edit : biteabit bitabit bibit bbbbbbbbb

 

[lhanscom]

It's possible for the bolt heads to come out, and fall into the case, under the crank, spinning really fast. If you take the cover off and remove anything thats fallen out, you should be ok, but it's a cheap fix, and will only take a couple hours of your time. As Nike says, Just Do It.

 

[Can_O_Tuna]

cover is off and the gear is spinning freely in both directions, so that is it. I'll let you know how it turns out. Jim

23mm crank bolt sound right?

 

[Can_O_Tuna]

had the rotor pulled (for free) at the local Suzuki dealer , it was the bolts ...sheared off. Got new bolts and locktited them in and just now used an electric impact to put the whole thing back on the crank. The assembly is now not spinning either way ie: the motor turns either way you spin the large clutch gear. I was under the impression that it was sposed to freewheel one way......ARGHHHHH did I screw something up? The mech who took it off said the springs looked ok. The shim is in there between the clutch and the rotor.
Now what?

 

[Can_O_Tuna]

Got it together on the 20th But....it sheared the bolts off again after a couple of hundred FUN miles.
I have learned a bit since. The mech who pulled the rotor off told me to tighten the crank nut as hard as possible....mistake # 1. I ordered a manual ...don't have it yet, but I was since told to torque it to 110 to 115 lbs. (is this correct?) The electric impact I was using was rated to 270 lbs. Mistake #2: One of the rollers had some scoring on it and I did not order new ones Found them at Midwest Action Cycle, they were discontinued at Alpha and the dealer. So I have to do it over... assuming I re-torque it properly and put in new springs and rollers in, is there anything else I should check while I have it apart?

Thanks for all of the help,
Jim

edit: BTW lhanscom, I guess your theory proved correct

 

[Carter Turk]

Katana 1000 starter clutch

Katana 1000 starter clutch

I'm wondering if your starter clutch has a boss for a dowel pin. It fits in the back of the rotor and protrudes out into the starter clutch. I've sheared my bolts three times until I discovered or theorized that the dowel was falling out of place and putting strain on the three bolts. I had a machine shop make a longer dowel as the stock dowel was short enough to fall into the starter clutch, out the boss in the back of the rotor.

Without this dowel the bolts probably would continue to shear. If your bike doesn't have one, a machine shop or you could bore a hole, captive on both sides and hopefully solve your problem. Carter

 

[Can_O_Tuna]

hmmm... there is no dowel, but I do have a drill press. Any idea of the dimensions? Or what bike was this on and I'll look at the diagram on the alphasports page.

 

[Carter Turk]

There should be a few balancing holes drilled on the outside of the rotor. As I recall the dowel was no bigger in diameter than these. As far as length, long enough to tie both parts together.

Check for holes on the back of rotor and the starter clutch itself. If there are any, use this for the dowel diameter. My starter clutch is out of an 1150, the rotor is out of an 1100. Your Kat may have a smaller rotor than the 1100 I have. Carter.

 

[Can_O_Tuna]

Groundhog Day

Groundhog Day

I am now a starter clutch removal and replacement expert Sorry Carter but it was 75 deg and sunny today so I pulled it apart , drilled out the sheared bolts , put the new rollers and springs in and put it back together. I tested it with the cover off and everything looked ok(there was some minor scoring on the spacer plate). With the new rollers and springs it seemed to lock up tighter and faster. 40 miles later I heard(and felt) the bolts shear off again..........

Before I invest in getting the dowel hole drilled and set ( got a quote from a machine shop for $80), should I just buy a new unit....I can't afford one , but I have come this far. How do I tell if the whole thing needs to be replaced? Anybody know where to buy one?

I really thought I had it licked this time :twisted:

 

[lhanscom]

Has any body every had the clutch welded to the rotor? I would think that would be the best solution, if it can be done without warping something.

 

[SqDancerLynn1]

What kind of bolts are you using??

 

[Carter Turk]

Mr. Tuna,

Is it possible that you are not torquing the rotor nut tight enough, causing the rotor to spin, putting stress on the bolts?

I'd say try the dowel route, as a starter clutch would cost a lot even used. I think 80 is a bit much to drill a hole and put a tight fitting dowel in.

Have you checked to see if there is in fact a boss in the back of the rotor?

Also go for the high strength bolts with a stamp on the head, saying 12-9 or something I can't remember. Carter

 

[bybowtie]

I am having a similar issue, however mine is due to the fact that someone got the bright I dea to reshape the crank end.. Have had it fixxed and break a few times and am now gonna weld it.. Ill let you know if it works.

 

[Can_O_Tuna]

Has any body every had the clutch welded to the rotor? I would think that would be the best solution, if it can be done without warping something.

Luke: Mine looks like copper on the outside edges(between the clutch and the rotor, if it would work I'd do just about anything at his point.

What kind of bolts are you using??

Aircraft hardness from Fastenall ( they are a real pain to drill out, even with a titanium bit)

I'd say try the dowel route, as a starter clutch would cost a lot even used. I think 80 is a bit much to drill a hole and put a tight fitting dowel in.

Carter: That's probably what I will try next.. the guy that quoted me is the one horse in my one horse town...I am going to call someone in Buffalo. I tourqued it to 115lbs. New kit is $154 + s/h from Ron Ayers

bybowtie; let me know if you fix it!

I pulled it apart ( I bought the removal tool) and there are 2 raised marks on the crank that look like polished rust ...I'm really looking closely at EVERYTHING...wonder it they are causing a problem, also it looked like it was the slightest bit out of round... I have had this bike for 14 years and only had this cover off once before to change a gasket....

Maybe the tuna is mad at me for letting her sit for a couple of years
:lol:

Thanks for the input: I'll let you know how the story ends...happy or with the BFH (big f@#!*!% hammer)

Jim

 

[Anonymous]

I'd be leery of using an impact wrench--electric or air--on the crank nut. As far as preventing the flywheel from turning, I used chain pliers from Vise-Grips (they're a regular pair of Vise-grips but instead of the jaws, there's an adjustable chain that lets you wrap around things, then you can clamp them closed like regular vise-grips). I wrapped a couple of turns of tape around the flywheel, tightened the heck out of the Vise-Grips, and then used a cheater pipe over the end of the ViseGrips to get more leverage and held the pipe against the floor.

 

[biker66]

I exchanged the original M8 bolts for M10 12.9 bolts.
You have to machine their heads to make them fit.
Thread the rotor for M10.
Machine the holes in the clutch assembly to accept 10mm bolts. (Tough steeel, talk to a machine shop!)

If your rotor spins free, use the lapping method described on my site.
Do NOT use Loctitie on the taper, it prevents the surfaces from contacting each other making it impossible to acquire a strong connection.

Make sure you clean the taper and the rotor with Brakleen before mounting it.
I also put the rotor in the oven for an hour befor fitting it and kept the taper cooled with ice. This will help create a crimp fit.

I torque the nut to max recommended value.