Starter not engaging

[mark_vaughn]

1981 GS1100e.

Starter turns but does not engage the engine. My guess is a starter clutch. Any words of wisdom and experience on a similar issue?
Is there a solonoid or something that I am missing to make the starter engage?

Thanks.

 

[almarconi]

From what I've read on this forum the 1100's are known to for killing starter clutches. Do a search, this topic has come up quite a bit. You could also remove the cover and have a look inside. The problem should be pretty obvious once you look at it.

 

[mark_vaughn]

Thanks for the reply. I have searched and there are a few topics related to starting problems. But I havent found one with a resolution.

The bike is opened up. Gears on flywheel and starter look good. The flywheel spins without engaging anything. The flywheel and the round part next to it (clutch?) spin independent of one another in one direction, but neither engage the engine.

How about this question: Do I need to replace the entire assembly or just a clutch plate of some sort?

 

[posplayr]

The bike is opened up. Gears on flywheel and starter look good. The flywheel spins without engaging anything. The flywheel and the round part next to it (clutch?) spin independent of one another in one direction, but neither engage the engine.

Sorry dont understand this. The big ring gear shoudl freewhell clockwise when looking at the engine and engage when you push it in the normal engine direction (counter clockwise). If you can push it counterclockwise it is worn out. Barrels alone might help but given the PITA it is go get the rotor off, I woudl do the whole assembly.


If the above is the case, then the barrels and the OD on that gear surface are worn down. I have a gear that is worn to failure but can't find it at the moment. The OD on the big gear is supposed to be something like 52mm even so by the time you get to 51.5mm the clutch will not grab any more.

Find a real nice replacement of get a complete starter clutch unit from Suzuki. It is about $95 from Flatout although it will take about 2 -3 weeks depending upon where you are.

Pos

 

[mark_vaughn]

Thanks again. I will remove the gears and measure.

Price update: $163 from flatout.

 

[posplayr]

I've seen the price difference, but did not realize the older was also so pricy. I bought one for my ED about 6-8 months ago for $95 so they have raised the cheaper one. This must be the difference between big end and small end cranks? 83 is big ended and has a different rotor. Big price difference for basically the same thing. There have been some on e-bay recently you might consider for about 1/3 the price. I think i sold one in excellent condition to a member here for $45-$55 shipped.

The 80-81 GS1100E lists this one

CLUTCH SET, STA
12600-49826 (replaces 12600-49822) 1$163.55


The 83 GS1100ED/ESD
lists these

4-1CLUTCH SET, STA
12600-49826 (replaces 12600-49822) 1$163.55 4-2CLUTCH SET, STA
12600-49865 (replaces 12600-49860) 1$100.14

 

[mark_vaughn]

I haven't measured the flywheel, but the small starter reduction gears are good, still show the tool marks on the teeth from when they were cut. Everything engages well.

I am trying to remove the charging rotor from the crank. Do I need to use a gear puller or am I missing something? Also, with the rounded edges I don't think a typical gear puller will grab the charging rotor.

Any advice before I cost myself more cash?

 

[mike_of_bbg]

I am trying to remove the charging rotor from the crank. Do I need to use a gear puller or am I missing something? Also, with the rounded edges I don't think a typical gear puller will grab the charging rotor.

A recent discussion of said procedure, for free:

http://www.thegsresources.com/_forum/showthread.php?p=1000006#post1000006

Your swingarm bolt should do the trick, but you'll need to stuff something into the threaded hole on the crank to push against. Be very selective what you use (trust me)! An Allen head bolt of the correct length, with some tape wrapped around the threads to hold it in position seems like a great idea. If I had to guess, I'd say it required about 40 ft-lbs of torque before mine popped off on my GS550.

 

[mark_vaughn]

Get some small washers that will fit inside the threaded hole (on rotor) once inside, screw the spindle in as tight as you can get it, then use a RUBBER (not metal) hammer and as you hit the rotor it should start to back off, failing that, unscrew the spindle and put a large socket on the spindle, put back in thread and tighten it up, then use the large socket as a slide hammer, do this a few times then retighten and so forth, THIS WILL REMOVE the rotor without the special tool to get it off.

I am missing something. The swing arm bolt is the same thread as the crank, I get that. But what is gripping the magnetic rotor? And where am I putting small washers?
This is one of those cases where a picture would speak wonders.

This is what I am looking at:

 

[mike_of_bbg]

OK, that looks nothing like what I'm working on. Noob getting ahead of himself

Seen this mentioned on several different models and thought it was GS-iversal. I guess not yours. Sorry. Mine - and many others - have female threads in the flywheel, as well as smaller female threads in the left crank end. The bolt holding the flywheel goes in the crank. The threads in the flywheel can be used to push it out.

Forgive me ray:

 

[mike_of_bbg]

Perhaps on a more helpful note, it does look like there are two holes just waiting for puller bolts to be put through them. Steering wheel puller, perhaps? I can't tell if they're threaded or if you'd have to fit nuts behind them from the pic.

 

[posplayr]

There are two types of rotors which require two types of pullers. Within those types there are also different threads required.

For the picture shown , the puled is like a big hollow socket with internal threads and a bolt opening through the center.

You screw on the socket on the outer thread to secure it and then tighten the center bolt. Usually you will then find it will not budge and you need to apply heat. Popane torch usually don't do it Mapp gas does. Keep it off the magnets. Use some big wenches to hold the outer socket and the center bolt of the puller. Hopefully you don't break your part before you get the rotor off. That was not the case for me and I had to modify my puller to make it even stronger. I know the 1100E's are this type. Threads do change year to year so check.

The other type of rotor, you simply put a large bolt into the center and it pops the rotor off. My 750 rotor popped odd with little effort.

If you can rotate that large ring gear (the one on the back of the clutch assmbely counterclock wise (or in either direction) then it is worn out. I have seen so wear on idlers but watch out for washesr that go on either side of the idler gear, some dont have it.

Pos

P.S. if you want to buy a new rotor , use a regular gear puller.

 

[mark_vaughn]

So is there a tool exchange program at The GS Rescources? I will gladly pay a deposit.

If not where would one recommend I look for such a tool?

 

[posplayr]

Some old links:

Some old links:

I did a search

http://www.thegsresources.com/_forum/showpost.php?p=873547&postcount=7

How to avoid Starter Clutch Disaster Modification

http://www.thegsresources.com/_forum/showthread.php?t=123877

Apparently I deleted the pictures of my "improved" tool. They are about $40

No exchange program. With the cost and hassle not worth it for a $30 tool

 

[mark_vaughn]

Thanks for doing a search. You are a better seeker than I.

Mine is the 35mm. Getting on on order now.

With the wear these specialty tools must go through an tool program wouldn't work.

FYI The last vehicle I rebuilt was a niche car and the forum had a great specialty tool exchange program. Saved hundreds in once in a lifetime tools. Thats why I ask.

 

[posplayr]

Mark,
yea the subject has come up before but to tell you the truth I would not want to send my puller out. It cost me $40 for the tool and another $50 for a drill/tap to enlarge the hole for the bolt after I stripped it. So now it is a custom $90 tool. The rotor is usually put on with something the equivalent of Red loctite so you need to heat to 400 degF to soften it, even then takes a lot of force and you can destroy the tool.

Most of the tools are reasonably inexpensive, or through ingenuity there are various alternatives which is an amazing thing in itself. I am amazed at what some people do to keep the cost down rather than running to the store every time they need something (like me).

Jim

 

[mark_vaughn]

Most of the tools are reasonably inexpensive, or through ingenuity there are various alternatives which is an amazing thing in itself. I am amazed at what some people do to keep the cost down rather than running to the store every time they need something (like me).

Jim

I am with you on just buying tools... My wife likes shoes, I like tools. But I have tried to cut back.

Bypassing that effort, I just ordered the MP-29 tool that should fit my engine. It was $56 shipped from PowersportSuperstore.com. Now I am off to Harbor Freight to pickup one of their parts washers they have on sale. On that note, they have a buffer/grinder combo that is great!! I was planning to have alot of things re-chromed, but this thing will probably let me get away with just polishing parts.

Tools... Its a sickness.

 

[posplayr]

I am with you on just buying tools... My wife likes shoes, I like tools. But I have tried to cut back.

My wife now calls her stuff in the kitchen "her tools":-k.

Good luck.

Jim

 

[mark_vaughn]

As an update:

I received the clutch removal tool. I don't know if they redesigned/upgraded it but there is a good inch of thread and it it all hardened so I doubt I could even torque it enough to strip the threads.

Anyway, my trusty 3' cheater bar made short work of removing the whole thing.

My bolts are sheared off, which would stop the starter from working...

Replace the bolts then I will see what kind of compression this thing creates.

 

[posplayr]

Good to hear; make sure you use red lock tite on threads and tapered shaft when you put it back on.