Starting issues..battery?

[gk45011]

Alright,
Off to a heck of a start with the new 83GS1100. I went to pick up the bike and it appeared to have some battery acid leaking. Possible old battery or failed cell.
He starts the bike up with no issue. I test ride it. We start it several more times throughout the conversation and discussions. After the sale i go to start the bike and the battery appears to not have enough power to kick the engine over.
We put it on a battery charger and break out a multimeter. It appears to be charging correctly at about 12.2. I start the bike and ride about 20 miles home. Upon arriving back at the house I recheck to see if it has power to start and it is good to go.
I wake up this morning and roll the bike down the driveway (non baffled 4-1). about halfway down the hill I stop and attempt to start the bike. Again there is nothing and it acts as though the battery is run down. At this point I am way down a steep hill and past the point of no return so I bump start it. Against what should have been my better judgement I then ride it 20 miles to work thining it wil charge up.
Upon arriving to work I try to re-start it and it appears dead again. I am confused, yet had to get to work. At lunch I went out removed the side cover and moved around some wires. I tried the ignition again and it roared to life like it had a brand new battery.
Again not being the smartest fry in the happy meal I decide to ride and get something to eat. When I went to return the bike again acted like there was zero charge.
Is it the battery? some sort of draining ground fault. What wires should I check? Or is the reg/rec or stator going out intermittently?

I am at a loss. Day two with the bike and nothing but issues. I am really starting to miss my reliable gs450 right now. Thanks to anyone who can help who read that long rant.


Gary

 

[Agemax]

firstly 12.2 volts is not a good charging voltage, its bad.you say the battery looked bad when you went to pick the bike up, have you removed it and checked it for cracks and the levels in the cells?
also you say wiggling the wires "appeared" to cure the problem, temporarily. this suggests you need to go through the whole wiring, starting from the battery and check ALL connections are clean,secure and tight.

 

[gk45011]

Battery

Battery

I just picked up the bike last night. It is new to me and still retains the factory airbox. Just popping the battery out seems to be a task in itself. Goal is to pull the battery out of the bike tomorrow and take it soewhere to have it checked/replaced. (if i can get it pulled out somehow.
I haven't hada chance to REALLY give the bike a good once over. It appears the previous owner was a member here Jmains. I asked if he had been having issues and he stated no. I would like to think he wouldn't have fked me over. However I guess it is possible it is a stator or reg/rec issue.
I have never had a bike intermitently act as though it was dead the you jiggle some things around and it all acts as though it has a perfect battery. I was hoping someone would have a better dea where to start. I will start tracing wires with a fresh battery tomorrow, It just seems really odd and I don't understand.. Could it be possible a cell in the battery vibrates over and is shorting out but when you jiggle the battery it moves and starts fine?

would love any and all advice.

This thing has more bells and whistles than my bare bones harness on my 450.

Gary

 

[Agemax]

there is no better way to start........... checking/replacing the battery is top of the list before you even think of going any further. then you need to check all your connections. there is no point doing any reg/rec or charging checks until you know all the connections are good and clean.
it maybe isnt the answer you are looking for but unfortunately it is the ONLY answer.

 

[Agemax]

by the way, Jmains is still a member here and his last activity was yesterday, maybe he can join in and tell us about any issues he may or may not have had with the bike.

 

[gk45011]

Battery

Battery

Jay seemed like a truely great guy. Even threw me some money back toward the battery after I told him of the issue. He called to verify I got home ETC.
I am in no way trying to insinuate he is trying to pull anything over. At least I hope not. I was going to text or call him to let him know I got the title transfered over today, but he has had a death in the family and i wanted to give some time for him to deal if he was in the middle of those issues.
Hopefuly he will chime in though. When talking to him he stated that it had never let him down, and was a completely new issue. He stated that he usually had it plugged in to a battery tender nightly though. The battery tender "MAY" have been masking a problem?

Time willing I will dig into this tomorrow, and hopefully it will be a shorted wire or just the bad battery. If I get the new battery in and the issue creeps back I will at least know there is a bigger issue hiding.

Gary

 

[Guest]

The only thing I have heard Jay post about the bike is how good it runs and how he shouldn't sell it cause how good it runs 10.59 with wheelie bars on it. It is no slouch for sure.

 

[Redman]

Most of your description sounds like the charging system is not charging the battery.

You will need a voltmeter to check this out.
Do you have a voltmeter (multimeter)?


But, then this:

.....
..........Upon arriving to work I try to re-start it and it appears dead again. I am confused, yet had to get to work. At lunch I went out removed the side cover and moved around some wires. I tried the ignition again and it roared to life like it had a brand new battery.......

THat sounds like a bad connection somewhere. Maybe the redwire going to the fuse block.

Tell us more what you find.

.

 

[posplayr]

why not end the suspense and just do a "Quick Test"

And as stated by the others 12.2V is not charging but discharging no matter what RPM

 

[gk45011]

battery

battery

why not end the suspense and just do a "Quick Test"

And as stated by the others 12.2V is not charging but discharging no matter what RPM

I would love to end the suspense. I own a multimeter myself and have never actually used it. I am not sure what setting to put it on or where to put the leads for a test. The info I posted was from the previous owner I believe putting his multi meter on the charging leads while hooked but running to jump it last night. Obviously an innacurate way to get a reading unless I am missing something.
My multimeter is a cheap harbor freight version. Any advice on where to probe is appreciated. Goal for tomorrow was to tear down enough to replace the battery and check the connections. Any advice on where to test, settings, and how is appreciated. I am new when it comes to this whole electrical mess. I won't be offended if you talk to me like you ere teaching you child...really my background in electrical is minimal when it comes to this stuff.

Thanks,
Gary

 

[gk45011]

battery

battery

The only thing I have heard Jay post about the bike is how good it runs and how he shouldn't sell it cause how good it runs 10.59 with wheelie bars on it. It is no slouch for sure.

Runs great, slight popping on low throttle, but none on idle or above 3500. pluds look good. No baffle and I think that is part of the issue with that. (I could be wrong).

It pulled the number no doubt. I just got to figure out how to make it reliable for more than a once a week track run.

Gary

 

[Steve]

When do you need a visit? :-k

I am busy tomorrow (Saturday), not sure about Sunday, yet.

.

 

[gk45011]

battery?

battery?

When do you need a visit? :-k

I am busy tomorrow (Saturday), not sure about Sunday, yet.

.

Steve,
I figured I would make some minor changes and see what I can figure out. Whoever designed the airbox over battery is Satan in my eyes right now. Any help you could offer to see where the issue is, and a laundry list of things to get her reliable would be outstanding.

Gary

 

[xxBenJamminxx]

Take you meter and set it 20v DC. Red lead to Pos on battery and Black to Neg on battery. Start it up and check the voltage there at idle, about 2500rpm, and then at 5000+rpm. I forget the actual numbers for sure but want to say anything between 13 to 16 volts is acceptable. Dont quote me on those numbers though.

Its all in the stator papers "quick test"

 

[Agemax]

Take you meter and set it 20v DC. Red lead to Pos on battery and Black to Neg on battery. Start it up and check the voltage there at idle, about 2500rpm, and then at 5000+rpm. I forget the actual numbers for sure but want to say anything between 13 to 16 volts is acceptable. Dont quote me on those numbers though.

Its all in the stator papers "quick test"

16v and you might need a fire extinguisher handy........14.5v is max you want to see.

 

[Steve]

16v and you might need a fire extinguisher handy........14.5v is max you want to see.

I happen to agree with you, but there are some silly people that actually believe what Suzuki wrote in the manual.

.

 

[Redman]

..................... I own a multimeter myself and have never actually used it......
....

Good opportunity to start using a meter. Can not really troubleshoot electrical problems too much with your sight, hearing, touch or smell.

You want to select DC Volts.
(or maybe just Volts, some meters just have a setting for Volts and then it detects and displays if its AC or if its DC connected. But I suspect your Harbor Frienght meter will hav e selction for ACVolts or DCVolts).
And maybe you have selction for 20 Volts DC and 200Volts DC (if digital. if analog maybe 50 or 150. I will assume its digital).
Select the smallest range that will be large enough, such as the 20 VDC range cause are expecting 11 or 12 or 13 or 14. And when select the 20 will probably then display one decimal place so display, say, "12.3" instead of just "12". You could select the 200, and it would work, but probably not have the decimal place, just display "12".

Before trying to troubleshoot anything on the bike, first just get used to the meter. Best way is to just measure battery voltage, just to see the meter operate. And maybe so you are not even thinking of troubleshooting problem on your bike, maybe open hood on a car. Put Red lead (positive) on battery positive, and Black lead (negative) on battery negative. Try the 20VDC and the 200VDC range.
Now red lead on battery +, and black lead to a ground such as some bolt head somewhere. Notice how it may be harder to get a good connection to the ground, like a bolt head or something, maybe have to scratch the meter lead into the surface to get connection. SO keep that in mind when using the meter and get reading of zero (or real low) volts, and try for a better connection of the meter leads before you say "no power here".

Now that have some experience with meter, can no longer say "have never used it".




WHen checking the charging system, can check it across the battery. Or if the battery is hard to get at, can do like Steve posted above from the manaul.

We could talk about if a GOOD charging voltage is 13.5volts or 14.0 volts or whatever. But for now were are just trying to see if charging system is working or not.

But to see if charging system is working at all:
1- check battery voltage with engine off
2- check with engine at idle (about same voltage or maybe even less than #1)
3- check with engine at mid rpm like 4000-5000, voltage should be lot higher than #1 if the charging system is working at all, like mid to upper 13s or low 14s.
If its about same as #2 then charging system not working at all.
If it is only a little higher that #2, then charging system is working some, but has problems and you may get bye sometimes and maybe not get bye other times, and is going to completely fail soon, and the cause of this could be some bad connections that are melting your wiring in the meantime.
If its way high, like 16 or 17 .... ..... well, that is not what you are experiencing, so we need not discuss that.

Again, it sounds to me like you have two different situations that need attention:
- that battery seems run down after a while (this could be a charging problem, or a battery problem, or both)
- sometimes everything dead, and then wiggle things and it is okay for a while (this is probably bad connection somewhere, somewhere in a wiring connection or maybe right inside fuse block.)

Each situation requires separate troubleshooting and fixing. Two separate different problems

Steve will get your troubleshooting effort going in right direction, I am sure.

One good thing about having an 70-80s Suzuki (rather than, say, a 70-80s Honda) is this web site forumn.
One good thing about having an 70-80s Suzuki on Cinci-Dayton area is Steve (and others).

............ there are some silly people that actually believe what Suzuki wrote in the manual.
....
.

Yah, I haven't known a stock charging system to make anything over 14, or close to 14 for that matter.
Yah, And that statement of ".... R/R may be faulty" is quite general. Could be many other causes.


.

 

[posplayr]

I happen to agree with you, but there are some silly people that actually believe what Suzuki wrote in the manual.

.

15.5 Volts can only be an absolute maximum with a fully charged battery, cold bike at maximum RPM and a loosey goosy R/R

As a general rule you should not see much if anything over 14.5V unless you still have one of the old OE R/R's that only regulate on one SCR/stator let.
Some of the modern R/R's seem to be spec'ed to regulate at 14.25 (nominal).

That is why in the "Quick Test", I list 14.0-15.0V at the top RPM. Even at 15.0V I would be worried about overcharging.

5.) at 5000 rpm.....14.0 -15.0 volts

I also think that Suzuki, was barely cutting their teeth on charging systems back when that manual was written. (not necessarily the best source of information these days).

 

[gk45011]

battery

battery

I went and bought a replacement battery and gave it charging now. As of tius morning it would not even click the starter. I pulled the battery and the levels were all way low.i figured that a new battery just takes that issue out of the equation.Hopefully steve can swing by tomorrow and give me hands on mutimeter example. Redman i will try what you told me it was a great rundown.
When removing the battery the conmections were crappy. Also attatched to the positive post was a green wire with a blue stripe.this wire was clamped in but had a resistor attatched. What is this wire?
Tomorrow battery will be charged so reassembly can start.

Gary

 

[posplayr]

I went and bought a replacement battery and gave it charging now. As of tius morning it would not even click the starter. I pulled the battery and the levels were all way low.i figured that a new battery just takes that issue out of the equation.Hopefully steve can swing by tomorrow and give me hands on mutimeter example. Redman i will try what you told me it was a great rundown.
When removing the battery the conmections were crappy. Also attatched to the positive post was a green wire with a blue stripe.this wire was clamped in but had a resistor attatched. What is this wire?
Tomorrow battery will be charged so reassembly can start.

Gary

That Green/Blue wire is usually the Battery Sense wire. I only thought they were on Bigger CC bikes. If you don't have a battery with sensor, then tie it to the positive post to keep the idiot light off.