stock rubber brake hoses vs stainless?

[slyone]

Whats the difference? I already ordered new stock hoses but havent gotten em yet...Are the SS available from a reputable supplier? and are they exactly like stock as far as length and bends at ends?..does it even really matter?

 

[sinkankan]

Whats the difference? I already ordered new stock hoses but havent gotten em yet...Are the SS available from a reputable supplier? and are they exactly like stock as far as length and bends at ends?..does it even really matter?

Very notable difference, I did all mine on the GS850 and it doesn't have that spongy feel especially under hard braking, I actually locked the back wheel up when doing my emergency braking license test, was made to do it again with better results.
Bought mine from a Ebay seller as a full kit with banjo bolts washers and four lines, and the back brake line was 10mm shorter.
No big deal when fitting it, but it misses one the back brackets on the rear swing arm.

 

[bbjumper]

+ 1 on the SS lines. Much better brake feel and they are more effective. SS doesn't expand under pressure as much as stock.

Cheers

 

[Rob S.]

How long do the SS lines last? I know Suzuki says replace the stock ones every two years.

 

[Flyboy]

I will throw the cat among the pigeons.
No difference, except for price, stainless cost twice the price for no better performance.
The reason that the brakes feel more firm is because you are replacing 30 year old, soft and worn out lines with new ones, will feel exactly the same with new stock hoses.
Braided stainless is for show bikes, they are a b1tch to try and keep looking new, the dirt embeds between the strands whereas a standard rubber hose just takes a wipe with a cloth and it looks new.
Maybe if you were looking for 0.04 of a second around the track, but for road riding, no difference.
Make sure when they make up your lines they put the fittings on at the right angles.

 

[tkent02]

I will throw the cat among the pigeons.
No difference, except for price, stainless cost twice the price for no better performance.
The reason that the brakes feel more firm is because you are replacing 30 year old, soft and worn out lines with new ones, will feel exactly the same with new stock hoses.
Braided stainless is for show bikes, they are a b1tch to try and keep looking new, the dirt embeds between the strands whereas a standard rubber hose just takes a wipe with a cloth and it looks new.
Maybe if you were looking for 0.04 of a second around the track, but for road riding, no difference.
Make sure when they make up your lines they put the fittings on at the right angles.

True and not so true. If you were to replace the rubber lines every two years as Suzuki suggests, you would probably never feel any difference. But seriously no one ever does that. Some of us replace them for the first time after thirty some years, just because the old ones are unsafe. Whether I use rubber or steel lines, I'm not doing it again, it's just not going to happen. Might as well use the ones that won't start to balloon, collapse or turn to mush in a few years. The steel lines make sense. I can make the length and angles fit my bike exactly, fit my MC, caliper and handlebar combination, and can even choose the color shrink tubing I put on them.

And they are cheaper than the stock ones.

No brainer.

If I were doing a 100% stock restoration, might go with rubber for the originality of it, but those restorations bore me.

 

[Rob S.]

I will throw the cat among the pigeons.
No difference, except for price

But do SS lines last longer?

Not that the stock ones don't last a lot longer than their two-year recommended replacement.

 

[srg]

http://www.anplumbing.com/ has stainless steel mesh tubing that is coated in PVC. This solves the "cleaning" issue. They seem pretty cheap for all new parts. Hoses are $3.59 per foot. You'd need, what, like 3 or 4 feet max for a front brake? A non-adjustable fitting is $14.63, and an adjustable one is $19.81.

So that's like $50. Not a bad upgrade in my opinion. The banjo fittings can be reused down the line as well.

I plan on doing this with my bike pretty soon.

 

[Brendan W]

Non coated braided lines will be loose in the guides on the forks and swing arm so you need to figure out a way to stop them chafing. The 850 is the first bike I had with them. Can't say there is much of a difference but I don't ride hard. Changing the fluid, that I do notice.

 

[TooManyToys]

I changed them on my bike in 1982 based on an article by Joe Minton in I believe was Rider magazine. He stated an improvement in front brake level travel, where on full hard application he was not able to bring the lever to the grip anymore with a more positive feel. I noticed the same on my few month old bike.

The Teflon will not degrade like the rubber will but there are no guidelines for life as far as I know. The early lines that did not have a cover over the braid were prone to having dirt migrate between the braid and the Teflon tube which could wear the Teflon thinner and more prone to burst. This mostly occurred on off-road /on-road lifted vehicles that required the longer aftermarket brake lines and spent some time in mud. But any cover color cover other then black is more prone to UV ray degradation on motorcycles, but that might take a decade or more.

 

[Chris G]

I have a question, can the stainless or other derivatives be clamped like you can with the rubber lines, makes a easy job when you can clap the hose to remove a caliper etc.

 

[TooManyToys]

No. And you should never clamp a rubber hose. It was a reason for dismissal at Kelsey-Hayes R&D.

If you want to stop fluid flow all you have to do is partially apply the brake pedal / lever. And pull the fuse if the brake goes on.

 

[GelandeStrasse]

Another opinion.

Braided lines are braided to prevent expansion under pressure, good for the race track. Non braided lines expand a tiny bit under pressure.
This means ... Braided lines have more "feel" but no modulating effect, this can be a good or bad thing depending on your point of view.
An example: panic braking in an emergency with braided timed in milliseconds - you apply full braking force to the front and all is good, then the wheel hits a bump, your fingers remain clamped round the lever. The extra forces caused by the bump initiate a lock up of the front wheel and unless you have superman reflexes (i don't) now you go down.
In the same situation with non braided lines there is a tiny amount of "give" in the system which is enough to absorb the milliseconds of extra pressure caused by that bump, this prevents the wheel locking which is a good thing.

IMHO putting braided lines on old bikes like these just makes the brakes feel wooden by amplifying their inherent lack of feel and power compared to more modern machines. Sticking with rubber lines gives a nicer feel at the levers and helps in hard braking situations.

 

[tkent02]

Wishful thinking.

 

[Brendan W]

Have wondered about converting abs bikes to braid and if that could let the modulator get out of phase with itself.

 

[tkent02]

More wishful thinking. A lot of ABS bikes come with braided lines. There's really no difference until the rubber lines get old and soft. Never heard of a problem switching to braided lines on ABS bikes or cars either.

Brings up a good point though. Is there any effect on the ABS function when rubber lines get old and soft? I have never heard of this, though ABS on cars has been common for thirty years or so, and almost no one ever changes their old brake lines on cars.

I think it just doesn't matter.

 

[RichDesmond]

I will throw the cat among the pigeons.
No difference, except for price, stainless cost twice the price for no better performance.
The reason that the brakes feel more firm is because you are replacing 30 year old, soft and worn out lines with new ones, will feel exactly the same with new stock hoses.
Braided stainless is for show bikes, they are a b1tch to try and keep looking new, the dirt embeds between the strands whereas a standard rubber hose just takes a wipe with a cloth and it looks new.
Maybe if you were looking for 0.04 of a second around the track, but for road riding, no difference.
Make sure when they make up your lines they put the fittings on at the right angles.

Agreed, most of the apparent improvement is because the old stuff is soft, but even comparing new with new the SS is a little bit better. Yes, I've done the experiment.

 

[Flyboy]

Tom the electronics in ABS would negate any expansion of the lines, as the primary result is a function of wheel speed, so, should pressure be lost due to expanding rubber hoses, the system will just compensate to achieve the desired wheel speed, so it is moot actually.
Interesting subject and one we can debate for pages, however for road use, practically, besides looks and spending $50 every two years there is no real advantage or braided over rubber, and if you too mean to spend $25 a year on brakes.....................well.

What I have seen is that I speak from a slightly different standpoint, it seems that the price difference over there in the big ole U.S of A is negligible.
When I had new lines made up for Jennifer, original rubber cost me just over R1000, braided was just over twice that price at R2100, so you can see why I mentioned price, you can guess what I went with. :-\\\

 

[Guest]

Another opinion.

Braided lines are braided to prevent expansion under pressure, good for the race track. Non braided lines expand a tiny bit under pressure.
This means ... Braided lines have more "feel" but no modulating effect, this can be a good or bad thing depending on your point of view.
An example: panic braking in an emergency with braided timed in milliseconds - you apply full braking force to the front and all is good, then the wheel hits a bump, your fingers remain clamped round the lever. The extra forces caused by the bump initiate a lock up of the front wheel and unless you have superman reflexes (i don't) now you go down.
In the same situation with non braided lines there is a tiny amount of "give" in the system which is enough to absorb the milliseconds of extra pressure caused by that bump, this prevents the wheel locking which is a good thing.

IMHO putting braided lines on old bikes like these just makes the brakes feel wooden by amplifying their inherent lack of feel and power compared to more modern machines. Sticking with rubber lines gives a nicer feel at the levers and helps in hard braking situations.

I so disagree with this statement. I went to the SS lines and have the best feel of my brakes I have ever had. I can modulate the brakes much better then I ever could with the old rubber lines that came on my bike. I kept saying to myself why did I wait so long to convert.

 

[Flyboy]

I so disagree with this statement. I went to the SS lines and have the best feel of my brakes I have ever had. I can modulate the brakes much better then I ever could with the old rubber lines that came on my bike. I kept saying to myself why did I wait so long to convert.

And you have had this bike from new?
Just asking.