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Stupid question

  • Thread starter Thread starter Danb4563
  • Start date Start date
D

Danb4563

Guest
Ok guys. This is going to sound like a stupid thread, I just need to know that I'm moving in the right direction here. I picked up my 83 1100e with no carbs. I managed to find a set of bs34s that I completely dismantled and rebuilt for the bike. I live in canada, so no dip. I boiled the bodies in vinegar/water after soaking them in Mr. Clean. Then I blew every passage clear with carb spray and then boiled them again. I've rebuilt the carbs with new o-rings from cycleorings.com and my boots are nice and soft. I haven't managed to find a local airbox, so I'm trying to work with a set of k&n pods for now, just to make sure the bike would start up. What I'm curious about is this, if the carbs are set up as stock, to run with the oem pipes and (eventually) the factory airbox, how bad will the bike run with the pods on it? The bike will start, and idle very smooth, but immediately dies as soon as you touch throttle. I know the bike will not run right with this setup, and I didn't expect it too, I just don't know how far out of whack it is supposed to be. I don't want to jet the carbs to run with the pods, as I plan on running the airbox. I just want to know if the pods would cause this condition or if I may have missed something during the rebuild. I'm not at home as I write this so I don't have my jetting numbers on hand, but I have verified online that they are the factory original sizes, and since I have Canadian carbs, the adjustable needle is set in the #3 groove. Again, Please let me be clear, I know the bike will not run correctly with this setup. I never expected it to. I know the pods will lean out the mix, Its just that it will likely be a few weeks before I have the box, and I've been itching to work on what I can.

I'm just wondering if this condition sounds familiar to anyone, and yes the valves are within spec.
 
pods are the dominant factor requiring rejetting(twice what 4:1 requires).
 
What does the bike do if you slowly roll the throttle on? Even with pods, it should pick up RPMs for a little bit before it begins to stumble. Make sure you're off choke as well. Pods should not effect idle. There simply isn't enough airflow to effect the carbs at low RPMs.

You'll need to find a good airbox and sync the carbs first before you have a definitive answer to whether you did the rebuild correctly or not.
 
Try restricting the pods a bit. I did this on a KZ650 with some socks. Yes, socks.
 
I know. Like I said, I never expected it to run well with the pods. I just want make sure that I've gone as far as I can before I get the box. Would the difference in the required jetting for the pods cause the motor to just due IMMEDIATELY, after touching the throttle or would it at least try to rev? If the jetting difference is the likely culprit, then I can walk away happy, knowing the box is on its way. I'm just worried there may be something else causing the issue and I'm hoping to be able ride the bike once the box comes in
 
No matter how slowly, I touch the throttle, as soon as the butterflies open she dies. I've done a bench sync on the carbs, but I haven't done a dynamic sync yet, as she wontnrun other than on idle.
 
Do as Dave said and put a rag over all the carb inlets to restrict airflow. If it doesn't improve then you may have something else going on.
 
Danb4563 said:
I just want to know if the pods would cause this condition or if I may have missed something during the rebuild.
Click to expand...

Could be. If you start it on the choke and leave the choke on does the engine rev up towards 3000rpm or so? That would indicate that you are at least getting enough fuel in to let it rev off idle.

You say you don't want to temporarily rejet, which is understandable, but you can easily open the mixture screws enough to make it run on the pilots and onto the needles a bit before it needs the main jets. This would be more than enough to let you do a carb synch. I would suggest trying 3.0 turns out and see if that helps. For reference, my 82 1100E with pods and 4-1 pipe is at 3.25 turns out right now.


Mark
 
Ok, so you are running at 3.25 turns without rejetting? What did you set the needles at? And yes, it has idled higher in choke.
 
Ok, so you are running at 3.25 turns without rejetting? What did you set the needles at? And yes, it has idled higher in choke. And just to be clear, because I'm getting conflicting information, does screwing the mix screw in riches or lean the mix? I thought you unscrewed it to riches the mix, but I'm being told otherwise by a buddy who knows more about bikes in general than I do.
 
Danb4563 said:
I'm being told otherwise by a buddy who knows more about bikes in general than I do.
Click to expand...

From the Cam chain tensioner thread....


MI GS850G guy said:
had a guy who claimed to be a whiz install it (along with several other things that needed attention). I wasn't able to be with him when he did the work, so I can't vouch for whether he really knew what he was doing, but based on the evidence of this and other tasks (e.g. he failed to install the new gasket), I'd say he's not nearly the mechanic he thinks he is.
Click to expand...

Stick around. The GSR professors will make you much more knowledgeable about your Bike than your buddy "thinks" he is.
 
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Danb4563 said:
Ok, so you are running at 3.25 turns without rejetting? What did you set the needles at? And yes, it has idled higher in choke. And just to be clear, because I'm getting conflicting information, does screwing the mix screw in riches or lean the mix? I thought you unscrewed it to riches the mix, but I'm being told otherwise by a buddy who knows more about bikes in general than I do.
Click to expand...

You screw the mixture screw OUT to Rich-en the mixture. STOP listening to your buddy who knows nothing about what he's talking about.
 
OK, I understand that you don't want to re-jet for a temporary situation, but let me ask one question: do you plan on RIDING it before you install the airbox? :-k

If not, don't worry about it. You can not get enough throttle opening long enough on the centerstand to lean out the mixture to the point of causing damage.

BonanzaDave suggested restricting the opening a bit. I have done that while working on a bike. Fold a shop rag in half, drape it over the opening of the carbs. If you have a helper, one of you can hold the rag somewhat taut over the carbs, the other can blip the throttle. You might be able to get creative enough to put some clamps over the rag, whether they are actual clamps or just zip-ties. I have even managed a ride around the block with a rag over the intake.

If your goal is to do a vacuum sync on the carbs, you only run it at idle anyway, or just a little above that, so turning the idle screw up to about 1500 will work perfectly. Adding an airbox or pods will not affect the vacuum sync. Your mixture will also not be leaned out while on the pilot circuit. Speaking of which, your mixture (pilot) screws only need to be out about 3 turns as a starting point. Once you get the bike running and get the carbs synchronized, you can tweak the mixture. I have found that easiest to do with the sync gauges still attached. As the mixture gets better, engine speed will increase, vacuum will go up, in all cylinders.
When the mixture gets worse (richer or leaner), engine speed drops and vacuum will go down in all cylinders. Starting at that 3 turn setting, you should be able to turn a screw IN to lean the mixture until the engine starts slowing down a bit. Back the screw out about 1/4 from that point, move to the next screw. When you have done them all, start over. You should notice that same speed drop within about 1/4 turn of the screw, now back the screw out 1/8 turn and move to the next one. When you are done, verify crisp throttle response (might have to hold your rag up to the carbs) and a nice return to idle speed.

.
 
Danb4563 said:
Ok, so you are running at 3.25 turns without rejetting? What did you set the needles at? And yes, it has idled higher in choke. And just to be clear, because I'm getting conflicting information, does screwing the mix screw in riches or lean the mix? I thought you unscrewed it to riches the mix, but I'm being told otherwise by a buddy who knows more about bikes in general than I do.
Click to expand...

No, I have rejetted and tweaked the needles as well to suit the pods and pipe. Everything has been altered to work properly on my bike. You indicate that you just want to be able to synch the carbs and the mixture screws will get you there with no other changes. If you want to try riding it then you are going to have to rejet. You screw the mixture screw out to add fuel on the BS34 carbs.


Mark
 
3.25 turns and she fired right up, revs up great!. Thanks for the help guys, now I can do a dynamic sync and get them completelydialed in as soon as I get my box
 
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