stupid, stupid spark plug problem

[MissFabulous]

I can't get the @$%*@ thing out!!!

I have a plug wrench that fits... it's the slip over kind with a little lever you slip into the holes to get leverage. Well, last night I had no luck so I sprayed some WD 40 on it hoping for better things tonight.

I used a screw driver hoping that would give me more leverage and more comfy grip. Now I realize I am a girl with more brains than brawn, but watching that screw driver bend while the bike is moving (this is my dirtbike, BTW, not my GS but I'm guessing this can be a universal problem) from the effort tells me that this issue may be more than being muscularly challenged. A few gentle hammer taps... no luck. Screw driver (Craftsman) still bending unhappily in my clutches. A few taps to the opposite direction to try and break the seal, then try again. No luck. Repeat several times with no luck.

So... what else? At this point it's obvious that if I got someone stronger to do it, the screw driver would break or worse, the plug or ending up with a stripped plug. Anything I should or should NOT spray? Other tricks? Tap the top of the plug? Candle wax trick? Warm it with a blow torch and blow the engine up? Shoot it?

WTF??? It's a stupid spark plug FFS!!!

Frustrated... I spend an entire Spring Summer and Fall learning about what to do and can't get past the stupid-simplest thing... grrr... I feel like a dope for even having to ask this... was so determined to beat it...

 

[eddiev]

Have the other plugs come out with out a problem? If this is the first time the plugs have been removed, my guess is the previous person that installed them stripped the threads and did whatever it took to get it sealed. Ie: Locked it so tight that it seazed with heat or even epoxed it if it were too stripped. Hate to say it, but who knows?
Eddie V

 

[gsgeezer]

It is always easier to get it out if you warm up the bike, but that assumes it can be started. You can use a socket wrench with a pipe on it. Also, Kroil is a great lube, it only needs to sit for a couple minutes. Kroil isn't easy to find at a store, but Blaster is, or even liquid wrench. Put some on and let it sit overnight, or at least long enough to have a beer.
And warm up the motor, if it will start. It should come right out!

GOOD LUCK!

 

[MissFabulous]

Thanks guys, especially for not laughing yer nutz off at me...

Well I just got this bike (the Yammie, sorry, not the GS, but I figure plugs are plugs) into my hands last week. The PO only had it for about a month and from what I can tell, didn't do much besides paint it (I got it on ebay, looked at his feedback and saw when he bought it and the mechanicals listed in by the first PO were the same ones he listed). He said it was running last time he took it to the track, loaded it on truck, got home and it didn't run. So my next step was to try and pull the plug (single cylinder 2 stroke) then reconnect it to the boot and wire, lay it on the head, kick it and see if I had spark (as advised in the IT Enduro forum) to see if it's electrical, but since I can't get it out...

No idea if it's stripped. There is no play at all in either direction. I hit it with some liquid wrench before I left the barn and put the plug wrench over it hoping to help keep some of those oils in to do their job. I'm pretty sure I saw Kroil at Auto Zone the other day. If no luck tomorrow, I'll go pick some up. I'm not a fan of this being patient stuff, even with beer, let me tell you.

Thanks again!

 

[Commodus]

If force and oil don't work, I'd go to heat. Play a torch over the head around the plug, try to avoid heating the plug as much as possible. Course, don't get too excited, you don't want to damage the head.

If you don't want to do this, use an impact tool, or use the impact tool plus the heat if the heat alone doesn't work.

Don't stress out too much, if the worst happens and you damage the threads badly, it can be repaired either by a local tech or a machinist.

 

[MissFabulous]

If force and oil don't work, I'd go to heat. Play a torch over the head around the plug, try to avoid heating the plug as much as possible. Course, don't get too excited, you don't want to damage the head.

If you don't want to do this, use an impact tool, or use the impact tool plus the heat if the heat alone doesn't work.

Don't stress out too much, if the worst happens and you damage the threads badly, it can be repaired either by a local tech or a machinist.

Thanks! I guess I should take the (plastic) tank off before attempting this with the torch. I have one and have used it a few times (mostly for plumbing) and I quickly learned to respect it. I probably oughtta clean off all the lubricants before doing this.

Now I'm wondering if I should try a new spark plug on the lead and see if I'm getting spark before going to these lengths to remove the old plug... if my issue isn't electrical, then from what I understand, dirt likely got into the cylinder and toasted the piston, which means I'll have to junk the engine anyway. That is worst case scenario, but is a possibility. If I have no spark, I have to look harder at the wiring, if I have spark, I have to look more closely at compression from what I gather, although there are some other things I would check first. Carb boot is dry rotted junk and probably needs a major cleaning among other things. I'm just trying to narrow things down as I go.

Wow... it took all this thinking and stuff to realize I could put a new plug to the lead... amazing how I can over-think nearly every problem I confront...

Thanks again... I'll try to figure out the simplest steps (not easy for me) and try them before resorting to the extreme. You guys are the greatest!

 

[49er]

M.F.

Commodus is right. If you stuff the thread it's not the end of the world.
I gather that you can't start your engine. You can check for spark by pulling the plug lead and sliding back the insulating rubber to expose the HT clip. You can hold the clip about 1/4" from the top of the spark plug and kick the engine over. You will either see a spark jump the gap or feel a shock. Either way you will establish if the problem is a crook plug or a faulty coil/ points. If you have spark, it is time to re-attempt a plug removal.
Don't put any more oil around it. Buy or borrow a designated plug socket that has a 1/2" drive. These are better fitting than the pressed steel ones, and are usually fitted with a rubber sleeve that molds around the plugs porcelain to avoid breakage. The 1/2" drive allows for greater torque to be applied without bending or breaking stuff.
Now preheat the area aroung the plug with a propane torch until you can't bare the heat with your hand.
Using propane will stop you from over heating the aluminium to melting point.
Fit a tee bar onto the socket and slide a small length of pipe over the bar to increase your leverage. Now exert maximum force in an anti-clockwise direction. Make sure that you stabilise the socket so that it doesn't ride up over the plug flats.
If it won't break free then, have another beer or put out a contract on the PO. Good luck.

 

[txironhead]

Screw driver (Craftsman) still bending unhappily in my clutches.

Damn, I'm impressed.

Don't plan on chunking the engine too quick. Two-stroke engines are really easy to rebuild. A mechanic I know once rebuilt five in one day. Of course, he used to wrench for Team Yamaha, but still.....they're pretty basic engines, I've been told it's harder to rebuild the carbs on those things than the engine. I may be rebuilding my brother-in-law's old Kawi "Mean Green" this summer.

If you absolutely can't get the plug out (and you will have to eventually) you can take the head off and take it to a machine shop to have it removed. Even if the threads are stripped or cross-threaded they can helicoil it or fix it somehow. Or you can contact some junkyards and just get a new (used) one.

 

[KGB]

Shirl,
Try pulling the head off first , then working on the plug.
It's 2 stroke, no valve gear to worry about.
The head should just come right off,,,,,,,,,,famous last words

get the head off and then put it in a vice or take it to a machine shop for help or leverage.

 

[Road_Clam]

Thanks guys, especially for not laughing yer nutz off at me...

Well I just got this bike (the Yammie, sorry, not the GS, but I figure plugs are plugs) into my hands last week. The PO only had it for about a month and from what I can tell, didn't do much besides paint it (I got it on ebay, looked at his feedback and saw when he bought it and the mechanicals listed in by the first PO were the same ones he listed). He said it was running last time he took it to the track, loaded it on truck, got home and it didn't run. So my next step was to try and pull the plug (single cylinder 2 stroke) then reconnect it to the boot and wire, lay it on the head, kick it and see if I had spark (as advised in the IT Enduro forum) to see if it's electrical, but since I can't get it out...

No idea if it's stripped. There is no play at all in either direction. I hit it with some liquid wrench before I left the barn and put the plug wrench over it hoping to help keep some of those oils in to do their job. I'm pretty sure I saw Kroil at Auto Zone the other day. If no luck tomorrow, I'll go pick some up. I'm not a fan of this being patient stuff, even with beer, let me tell you.

Thanks again!

It's very common for plugs to get siezed on dirtbikes, as water sits down inside the cylinder head and corrodes. Tip #1 try "PB Blaster". You can actually remove the exhaust header, spray a good amount up through the exhaust port on top of the piston, and kick the engine over a few times. This will splash some lube on the underside of the sparkplug. Let it sit for a week, and give it another try for removal. If still nothing, Use propane heat around the base of the plug. Try to get some leverage on the plug with some type of longer wrench, Sparkplugs can be cranked down WAY too tight by previous owner idiots.

 

[MissFabulous]

Here I thought this was such a dumb question, but I guess it's not that uncommon and you've all given me great tips. Guess it's true what they say about "the only dumb questions..." and all. I'll start with some of the easiest tips and go from there. Thanks everyone!

 

[Road_Clam]

Here I thought this was such a dumb question, but I guess it's not that uncommon and you've all given me great tips. Guess it's true what they say about "the only dumb questions..." and all. I'll start with some of the easiest tips and go from there. Thanks everyone!

Like a few others commented, your worst case scenario is you will have to pull the cyl. head off. On an older air cooled 2 stroke, its a 10 min EASY job. If you do yank the head, take another 5 min., and slide off the cylinder and just have a good look at the piston. If all looks good slap it back together, and beat the crackers out of it! This is a PERFECT example why I love 2 strokes...... "SIMPLICITY"
Rich

 

[gsgeezer]

Right! More leverage (decent socket with cheater bar) and (I sound like a crazed parrot) Kroil.

A mechanic I know (now retired) turned me on to Kroil some years back he has worked on everything from antique farm equipment, airplanes, industrial machinery, cars, old bikes, you name it.

I have not broken anything off since I have used Kroil and that includes bolts that have been in place and corroded for over one hundred years. It might be a good time to pick some up. I have recently removed exhaust manifold fasteners from a '62 Plymouth that were totally rusted. I didn't have to use heat, but I did let them sit overnight (more beers) I am sure I will break something in the future, but so far I have been lucky. It isn't like I have to remove frozen parts every day, but Kroil has been great. Stops rust, too.

Try to feel if your tool seems to flex too much, then it can be ready to snap.
At least, since what you are removing is a plug, you can certainly use heat!
I'm just too lazy and let the Kroil do the work!

Two strokes are great to practice rebuilding skills. Even I managed to rebuild my old '72 Suzuki TX250, after the motor siezed. I was pretty young and I was scared to death, but I figured, I'm broke and what have I got to lose, since I paid $200 for the bike. (To me at the time, that was $$$)

 

[rustybronco]

Patience, a few days will not a difference make.

" I'm not a fan of this being patient stuff, even with beer, let me tell you