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Synth vs dino

Wingsconsin said:
" ...Synthetic base oils give enhanced performance because they are manufactured using advanced chemical processes, so their molecular structure and hence, their properties, can be closely controlled. For example, fully synthetic oils like Shell Helix Ultra are designed to flow more easily at start-up temperatures.."

http://www.shell.com/global/product...ricants/cars/how-oil-works/synthetic-oil.html
Click to expand...

The viscosity rating describes two points on a temperature vs viscosity curve. For similar chemistry oils, this curve should have the same shape. They've monkeyed with the chemistry enough to alter the shape of the curve to favor lower viscosity at temperatures below that where the first number of the rating is specified.

Still, this is not a unique feature of synthetics. Dino oil formulations are subject to similar manipulation, though maybe not to the same degree. So, if your gaskets are marginal, what you have to look out for is oils that claim to lower viscosity at low temperatures (Probably lower than you'd ride. Well, maybe not in Wisconsin.), where the higher viscosity will result in higher pressures in the passages. Also, if you think your gaskets are marginal, avoid higher RPM than you've used before, because that also results in higher oil pressure.

Honestly, if I'm worried that a bike may start leaking from such a small disturbance, I'd be looking at new gaskets. Worrying about mechanical issues is no way to enjoy a ride. Especially when the only seals exposed to full pressure are the oil gallery, oil pressure sensor o-ring, base gasket [o-rings], and head gasket. All the other seals are essentially exposed to just crankcase pressures from the pistons moving and maybe blow-by, or hydrostatic pressure in the case of the clutch and generator covers and a few shaft seals.

To my mind, the real reason to avoid synthetics in an old engine is that a tired old air-cooled engine is likely to be consuming oil, so you'll be burning, blowing or leaking more expensive oil.
 
Dogma said:
Still, this is not a unique feature of synthetics. Dino oil formulations are subject to similar manipulation, though maybe not to the same degree. So, if your gaskets are marginal, what you have to look out for is oils that claim to lower viscosity at low temperatures (Probably lower than you'd ride. Well, maybe not in Wisconsin.), where the higher viscosity will result in higher pressures in the passages. Also, if you think your gaskets are marginal, avoid higher RPM than you've used before, because that also results in higher oil pressure.
Click to expand...

Most of the places where oil leaks from a GS engine are not pressurized.

Clutch and stator covers, cam chain tensioner, valve covers, tach drive, are common leakers and are not pressurized. A lot of the head and base gasket leaks are not from pressure either. It just seeps.
 
Dino

Dino

For the time being, I'm going to stay with dino.

And looks like I'll finally get to try my new, cheapo ($10) Pittsburgh Pro torque wrench. I think I'll practice with it on the rear axle nut, just to be safe.

I guess that's one of the reasons I like chain drive. Adjusting it is one of the things a non-mechanic like me can do, feel the difference immediately on a ride and feel good about it.

And thanks again for the package, Dave. I got my tach lit up with your help.
 
Use your breaker bar, or a 1/2" ratchet to crack the head nuts loose before you try to make them up with the torque wrench. I broke my beautiful dial type torque wrench torquing the head on an 850. The nuts were really sticky and shocked the wrench breaking it. It's at the shop right now and going to cost $70 to fix the stupid thing. Maybe should have thrown it in the trash, but didn't have the heart.
 
Nessism said:
Use your breaker bar, or a 1/2" ratchet to crack the head nuts loose before you try to make them up with the torque wrench. I broke my beautiful dial type torque wrench torquing the head on an 850. The nuts were really sticky and shocked the wrench breaking it. It's at the shop right now and going to cost $70 to fix the stupid thing. Maybe should have thrown it in the trash, but didn't have the heart.
Click to expand...

What he have here is an excellent opportunity to turn this into a torque wrench thread:

Ya know, a nice simple beam type wouldn't have that problem. :twistedevil:

(I have clicky wrenches.)
 
tkent02 said:
Yes, because they still have a lot of advantages over the clickers.
Click to expand...

I had "clickers" about ten years ago, and then one day I tried out a beam.
The clickers went into the trash and I never looked back.
 
Okay now which type of torque wrench is better for use on sprockets on the chain drive bikes which are clearly superior to shafties?
 
Clickers, need periodic calibration, can lose calibration if dropped, or if the adjustment spring is left too tight for too long in storage. Expensive to buy a good one. Affected by temperature. Sometimes on the small torque settings, you can't hear or feel the click. Should not be used at either extreme of it's range. More expensive. Should not be used as a breaker bar, as it can break. More fun to use, because it does something.

Beam, never needs calibration other than bending the needle straight. Temps don't matter much if at all. Cheap to buy a good one. Can use it as a breaker bar, no problem. Lasts forever. Not as much fun to use. Sometimes, it's hard to see the dial as you use it.

Use whichever one you have.
 
tkent02 said:
Clickers, need periodic calibration, can lose calibration if dropped, or if the adjustment spring is left too tight for too long in storage. Expensive to buy a good one. Affected by temperature. Sometimes on the small torque settings, you can't hear or feel the click. Should not be used at either extreme of it's range. More expensive. Should not be used as a breaker bar, as it can break. More fun to use, because it does something.

Beam, never needs calibration other than bending the needle straight. Temps don't matter much if at all. Cheap to buy a good one. Can use it as a breaker bar, no problem. Lasts forever. Not as much fun to use. Sometimes, it's hard to see the dial as you use it.

Use whichever one you have.
Click to expand...

A rational, objective, informative post. It has no place here!! :evil:
 
I use my beam wrenches more now then ever. Also been using syn oil in my bike for years, no leak problems, no oil burning nothing.
 
Funnily enough, this very topic was exercising me earlier and that's why I nipped in here to see what experiences anyone had with fully-synth on the roller-bearing crankshafts.
It occurred to me that it's possible for an oil to be too good, and one thing that must be avoided is ball-skid. Once your balls start to skid, you're snookered, matey.
 
bonanzadave said:
Seeing how this has gone completely OT....

any of you 4 wheel BMW types had to buy this ?

PENTOSIN CHF 11S http://www.pentosin.net/f_hydraulicfluid.asp

They make motor oil too. http://www.pentosin.net/f_motoroil.asp
Click to expand...

I use pentosin coolant in my cars. Picked up the habit while working in a specialty VW restoration shop and have kept it up. One of our customers swore by the pentosin brake fluid in his race cars, but I always stuck with my tried and true ATE because it comes in both blue and amber; which helps give a visual cue when doing the annual systems flush.
 
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