synthetic or not synthetic

[prxbadger]

ok as in the title but has anyone any experience with semi synthetic?

it seems to be holding up ok but if people think its rubbish then i will appreciate knowing :-D

 

[Jethro]

Uh oh, game on...

I've used it all, none makes my bike run cooler, none extends my service interval, none makes my seals leak, none improves gas mileage, etc.

I often buy the Castrol Syntec which is a blend. Why you ask? Becasue it has the big, huge cap with no foil to peel off underneath.

 

[prxbadger]

Becasue it has the big, huge cap with no foil to peel off underneath.

lmao :-D makes sense to me

i only ask because although its an old engine, it is young in miles n i wanna do the right thing with its blood

cheers jethro

 

[Dave8338]

ok as in the title but has anyone any experience with semi synthetic?

it seems to be holding up ok but if people think its rubbish then i will appreciate knowing :-D

I like the synthetics, the only problem that I've ever run into is that in an older engine with higher mileage, I've have noticed, that gaskets that did not leak prior the the synthetic conversion, began to shortly after. I'm not sure that this can be directly linked to the synthetics or if in fact, they were about to start leaking and just did so as a coincidince. Either way, if they're going to leak, they need to be fixed.

 

[prxbadger]

I like the synthetics, the only problem that I've ever run into is that in an older engine with higher mileage, I've have noticed, that gaskets that did not leak prior the the synthetic conversion, began to shortly after. I'm not sure that this can be directly linked to the synthetics or if in fact, they were about to start leaking and just did so as a coincidince. Either way, if they're going to leak, they need to be fixed.

cheers dave, i have noticed a smell of oil when stopped in traffic although there was a rather battered honda behind me :-| when i first noticed

cant find any leaks and there is no excess smoke so.......dunno

 

[Dave8338]

cheers dave, i have noticed a smell of oil when stopped in traffic although there was a rather battered honda behind me :-| when i first noticed

cant find any leaks and there is no excess smoke so.......dunno

PEACE BRO... I think it is more a matter of how often the maintenance is done and less a matter of what particular fluids are in the equation. \\/

 

[salty_monk]

Pure synthetic might cause your gaskets to start leaking but unlikely. With Semi it's very unlikely.

Dan

 

[Nessism]

Based on research the following is my understanding on the oil subject:

-There are various grades of oil available from pure dino to pure synthetic. Some oils listed as synthetic are actually refined dino (such as Quaker State and Penzoil synthetic). There are also blended oils so basically the entire spectrum is covered.

-Synthetic oils have chemistry which resists breakdown thus they last longer than dino oils. Extended usage is the benefit – thus high mileage recommendations between changes (Amzoil recommends up to 25k miles for automotive use).

-Since synthetic last longer, it’s common to beef up the detergent package to keep sludge under control during extended mileage usage. The high detergent level has a tendency to loosen up gunk in the engine that may be blocking a leak path – thus the reason some people say that synthetic caused leaks in their engines.

-Synthetic does not lubricate better per say but in the case of extreme usage, such as racing, they provide a margin of safety so to speak. BMW cars come with synthetic oil from new for example, so there is no concern with the oil being “too slippery” for proper break-in.

-Oil formulations change all the time so if you’re anal about the subject you need to pay attention to what direction the industry is moving. For example, diesel oils have recently been reformulated due to changing legislative requirements, and auto oils have reduced zinc as of late due to catalytic converter longevity concerns.

In my opinion, low buck synthetic (like Rotella 5W-40) is a good hedge against overheat damage on our air cooled GS engines. Diesel grade dino oil is also a good way to go for those that don’t wait too long between changes. Spending big bucks on motorcycle specific oils, is not going to do much other than lighten your wallet. Again, my opinion.

 

[prxbadger]

thank you nessism very informative, think i'll stick to the semi synthetic

 

[Thomas Kenny]

I've been running Mobil 1 15-50 synthetic in my GS550ES for 5 years no leaks good smooth shifts and my clutch has been just great.

 

[tfb]

Eeek, not another oil posting... :-D

Mind you, in my experience, switching to synthetic oil definitely makes the transmission quieter.

 

[Road_Clam]

lmao :-D makes sense to me

i only ask because although its an old engine, it is young in miles n i wanna do the right thing with its blood

cheers jethro

Keep in mind, and older engine has an older WET CLUTCH. Tired clutches respond bad (possible excessive slippage) to any type of synthetic based oils. Remember, the oil not only in the engine, it's in the clutch. Most experts will advise you DON'T use synthetics in older bikes. I am dead against synthetics in older engines. I use Kawasaki 10W-40 or 20W-50, depending on the time of year. The stuff is full petroleoum based, inexpensive, and never let me down.

 

[cberkeley]

The thought keeps popping up in my mind too, about changing to Synthetic. But, I think I prefer to stay with my dino, Castrol GTX 20W50 and change it early, which equates to like three times a year for me <1000-miles per oil/filter change. About the same cost as once per year with Syntec.
While I'm doing that I change-out the final-gear oil too SAE90.

 

[prxbadger]

Keep in mind, and older engine has an older WET CLUTCH. Tired clutches respond bad (possible excessive slippage) to any type of synthetic based oils. Remember, the oil not only in the engine, it's in the clutch. Most experts will advise you DON'T use synthetics in older bikes. I am dead against synthetics in older engines. I use Kawasaki 10W-40 or 20W-50, depending on the time of year. The stuff is full petroleoum based, inexpensive, and never let me down.

hmmm, now i dont know lol

my clutch seems fine at the minute, its only had 16k miles on it so i will certainly keep an eye on it

cheers

 

[Guest]

Based on research the following is my understanding on the oil subject:

-There are various grades of oil available from pure dino to pure synthetic. Some oils listed as synthetic are actually refined dino (such as Quaker State and Penzoil synthetic). There are also blended oils so basically the entire spectrum is covered.

-Synthetic oils have chemistry which resists breakdown thus they last longer than dino oils. Extended usage is the benefit ? thus high mileage recommendations between changes (Amzoil recommends up to 25k miles for automotive use).

-Since synthetic last longer, it?s common to beef up the detergent package to keep sludge under control during extended mileage usage. The high detergent level has a tendency to loosen up gunk in the engine that may be blocking a leak path ? thus the reason some people say that synthetic caused leaks in their engines.

-Synthetic does not lubricate better per say but in the case of extreme usage, such as racing, they provide a margin of safety so to speak. BMW cars come with synthetic oil from new for example, so there is no concern with the oil being ?too slippery? for proper break-in.

-Oil formulations change all the time so if you?re anal about the subject you need to pay attention to what direction the industry is moving. For example, diesel oils have recently been reformulated due to changing legislative requirements, and auto oils have reduced zinc as of late due to catalytic converter longevity concerns.

In my opinion, low buck synthetic (like Rotella 5W-40) is a good hedge against overheat damage on our air cooled GS engines. Diesel grade dino oil is also a good way to go for those that don?t wait too long between changes. Spending big bucks on motorcycle specific oils, is not going to do much other than lighten your wallet. Again, my opinion.

I have seen some oil analysis results from very respectable folks that show even M1 Extended Performance is not a true synth any longer. (not sure about their $8.12/quart motorcycle specific synthetic). The automotive M1 EP results gave characteristics which meant it fell into Group III oils, not IV (synth). Only TRUE synths I am aware of any longer are AMSOIL and REDLINE. Not to say M1 EP isn't a good oil...I use it, and change the filter every 3,000 miles and then top off the oil. At 15K, I change it all. After the 1100 gets a rebiuld and an 1166 kit, I may switch to Amsoil after break in...

I would not even bother with semi-synth. Just run good quality standard dino, like Castrol, or something. Maybe even Rotella 15w40 diesel oil. Just my .02, mind you!

 

[twistedwankel]

Blend is only 20% Synthetic

Blend is only 20% Synthetic

For what it's worth. All the blends are simply pouring 1 synthetic into 4 regular oils of the same viscosity of the same brand oil.

If you're in a pinch this is worth knowing. There is no special "process" used in a blend they just provide 20% synthetic.

Only the best synthetics are acid modified meaning they can neutralize all the acid produced in the recommended time/use interval. A blend is always capable of doing this with the regular oil.

The only meaningful advantage of using synthetic oil is an infinite ability to change viscosity 10-40W or other as temperature dictates. Regular oil loses this ability in a relatively short time.

Synthetic is expensive and regular oil isn't so just change it more often to keep wear under control. Unless of course you race the vehicle or run it in dusty conditions. Change is for the best sometimes.

I love all the synthetics but can't justify their use ($) under normal perfect conditions. I also drink lite beer in excess of 2 cans per day and have lived to 60....go figure. Still comes out yellow after each use.

BTW you can mix viscosities of the same manufacturer too. A trick we learned in racing...do that which achieves your desired result. We ran 1/2 10-30W and 1/2 10-40W in a high revving turbo Honda and it worked best. But changed very often too.

 

[Addy Leung]

I have following information, do you think it is right or not?

My old mechanic told me that the requirement of the engine oil for Motorcycle and private car is totally different.
Since the engine oil in the private car does not serve the clutch and gear box. Most private car use dry clutch and separate heavy gear box oil (80W to 90W) in gear box compartment.
The condition in motorcycle is different. The engine oil in motorcycle serves both the wet clutch and the gear box. Too light weight engine oil will make clutch slip and gear box shear force will be very easy breakdown the oil and make the engine oil to have shorter life.
You may just try to see and use a finger to feel the used engine oil from motorcycle( especially the heavy big bike, no matter it is old or present model) and private car. The used engine oil ( especial the synthetic oil) from motorcycle like water, no more viscosity. But it would not be happen in private car used engine oil with same mile of usage.
One thing more, the engine speed of motorcycle is much much higher than private car( some of the motorcycle engine speed reach to 15k rpm, or even higher, like the Honda CBR250, it has 18k rpm red line)
So my old mechanic told me that I should use normal private car engine oil with 10W40 or higher weight in summer to save money but do not abuse the engine, and also change it regularly around every 3k to 5k mile.
If I do want have fun with the bike at top speed, I should use the synthetic oil specially design for motorbike (but not just design for any private car).

 

[Road_Clam]

I have following information, do you think it is right or not?

My old mechanic told me that the requirement of the engine oil for Motorcycle and private car is totally different.
Since the engine oil in the private car does not serve the clutch and gear box. Most private car use dry clutch and separate heavy gear box oil (80W to 90W) in gear box compartment.
The condition in motorcycle is different. The engine oil in motorcycle serves both the wet clutch and the gear box. Too light weight engine oil will make clutch slip and gear box shear force will be very easy breakdown the oil and make the engine oil to have shorter life.
You may just try to see and use a finger to feel the used engine oil from motorcycle( especially the heavy big bike, no matter it is old or present model) and private car. The used engine oil ( especial the synthetic oil) from motorcycle like water, no more viscosity. But it would not be happen in private car used engine oil with same mile of usage.
One thing more, the engine speed of motorcycle is much much higher than private car( some of the motorcycle engine speed reach to 15k rpm, or even higher, like the Honda CBR250, it has 18k rpm red line)
So my old mechanic told me that I should use normal private car engine oil with 10W40 or higher weight in summer to save money but do not abuse the engine, and also change it regularly around every 3k to 5k mile.
If I do want have fun with the bike at top speed, I should use the synthetic oil specially design for motorbike (but not just design for any private car).

Good comments. This is exacly the reasoning I try to explain to the millions of cheap a$$ customers that come into my bike shop and say "Ahh screw it, I just run cheap recycled Rotella tractor oil in my bike". My oil of preferance is Kawasaki 10W-40. The stuff is $3.69/qt.

 

[Keith Winter]

Hey,
Ah yes, the age old oil debate. One of the best thing's about "true" synthetic oil is it stay's the same "thickness" (easy to understand) whether it's hot or cold. That is why lot's of user's report a quieter engine and a smoother clutch when the bike is hot. Regular "dino" oil does not have this ability. After living in Alberta, Canada, for ten years and using full synthetic in both my car's and bike's, I can vouch for the fact that synthetic oils are the same to pour at -30c to +30c. Go REALLY up north and NOTHING use's any kind of regular oil, it's all synthetic. In short, regular oil can not protect moving part's under load as good as synthetic oil. I say "regular" oil because there are blends of Dino based oil that can rival synthetic's, but they cost a fortune.
The debate on oil will continue for as long as engine's require it, and the cost verses changing frequency, the leaking seal myths, the tales of the slipping clutch, and all the other stuff will continue as well. To each his own I guess. The fact is;
A $2 a quart jug of "dino" oil can not protect the moving parts in our air cooled bike engines as good as full synthetic oil can, period. If you care about getting the best protection for your bike engine that we can get on a day to day basis, synthetic is the way to go.
The other important thing about what oil to use, and this may be MORE important than "dino verses synthetic", is that little sign on the oil can, ENERGY CONSERVING. The metalic compounds that are added to both dino AND synthetic oils to get the "energy conserving" rating are NOT good for the clutch OR roller bearings that our bike's use. Now, it may take years to see problems in the roller bearings in the engine from these metalic compounds, but I have heard of clutch problems from just one oil change due to these compounds IN the oil, not what kind of oil it was. Energy conserving oil was engineered for the average passenger car engine, NOT motorcycle engine's.
Keith

 

[Nessism]

Hey,
Ah yes, the age old oil debate. One of the best thing's about "true" synthetic oil is it stay's the same "thickness" (easy to understand) whether it's hot or cold. That is why lot's of user's report a quieter engine and a smoother clutch when the bike is hot. Regular "dino" oil does not have this ability. After living in Alberta, Canada, for ten years and using full synthetic in both my car's and bike's, I can vouch for the fact that synthetic oils are the same to pour at -30c to +30c. Go REALLY up north and NOTHING use's any kind of regular oil, it's all synthetic. In short, regular oil can not protect moving part's under load as good as synthetic oil. I say "regular" oil because there are blends of Dino based oil that can rival synthetic's, but they cost a fortune.
The debate on oil will continue for as long as engine's require it, and the cost verses changing frequency, the leaking seal myths, the tales of the slipping clutch, and all the other stuff will continue as well. To each his own I guess. The fact is;
A $2 a quart jug of "dino" oil can not protect the moving parts in our air cooled bike engines as good as full synthetic oil can, period. If you care about getting the best protection for your bike engine that we can get on a day to day basis, synthetic is the way to go.
The other important thing about what oil to use, and this may be MORE important than "dino verses synthetic", is that little sign on the oil can, ENERGY CONSERVING. The metalic compounds that are added to both dino AND synthetic oils to get the "energy conserving" rating are NOT good for the clutch OR roller bearings that our bike's use. Now, it may take years to see problems in the roller bearings in the engine from these metalic compounds, but I have heard of clutch problems from just one oil change due to these compounds IN the oil, not what kind of oil it was. Energy conserving oil was engineered for the average passenger car engine, NOT motorcycle engine's.
Keith

Not to pour gasoline on the smouldering embers of the "age old oil debate" but...

- Synthetic oils have a better viscosity index than dino oils. This means is pours better at low temps. This does NOT mean that it pours as good at -30c as it does at +30c because it doesn't.

- Synthetic oils do not protect an engine "better" unless you are refuring to an engine on the verge of melt down from overheating. Synthetic oils last longer, that's their main strength, which allows an extended change interval.

Regarding "energy conserving" oils causing problems with roller bearings...I've never heard this one. Too slippery causing rollers to skid? I thought this was a false claim against synthetic? Below is a comment from Amzoil's web site about roller bearings and their oil:

"Synthetic motor oils are no more "slippery" than petroleum motor oils. The tractive coefficient, which is the measure of the case with which a lubricant facilitates sliding, is essentially the same for both petroleum oils and synthetics. Synthetic motor oils are also used in many production and racing cars that have sophisticated roller follower technology and they have absolutely no problems whatsoever with roller bearings not turning."

Honestly, the reason there is so much debate about oil is because people keep spreading rumor as fact. Sorry to sound harsh but that's the way it is.