Tank lining Q&A

[TheCafeKid]

Ive never used it...curious about how it works..ive read a bit and understand its a three part process ( at least with the Kreme) How does it work, and how do you actually coat the inside of the tank? I;ll soon have a couple to do. Any tips and info is appreciated!!

Thanks!
TCK

 

[Ironriot]

Dude I heard some bad stuff about Kreem. Supposedly it comes off with certain gasoline additives and its not that good at sealing. Take a look into Por15. That stuff is the cat's ass when it comes to sealing metal. As for coating the inside of a tank, does it have rust inside it already? If so throw some nuts and bolts in there and shake it around to get all the rust off. Then pour in some phosphoric acid to etch the metal. After that let the phosphoric acid dry out and coat it with Por15. Alot of people say that the metal doesn't need to be prepped when you use Por but why do it halfassed? If you're already there might as well right? As for actually coating the inside, plug the holes for the petcock and fuel sender pour in the stuff and shake it around. Just try and get it all coated. And then pour out the excess. And you're as good as done.... OH and make sure you let it cure for... I think its a week

 

[hotbox05]

now this may be a dumb question but do you need to do this? i know i've hammered my tank a bit but the tank doesn't appear to have any rust or even much gum from looking inside of it.

any help? k thanks

 

[Nessism]

There was a fairly long thread on this subject last week... http://www.thegsresources.com/_forum/showthread.php?t=116572

In a nutshell, the Por-15 kit comes with 1) caustic degreaser, 2) phosphoric acid rust remover, 3) sealer.

I did a tank recently and the sealer did not stick because (I think) the tank was not completely dry inside. After all this fuss and muss I'm of the opinion that the sealer should only be used if absolutely necessary. Give the phosphoric acid time to work and leave well enough alone unless you have heavy rust.

 

[Texatl]

The Rice Paddy has a link to a Kreem How-to thats very very detailed. Good read.

 

[Jaguarjoe]

This stuff worked really well for me:

http://www.caswellplating.com/aids/epoxygas.htm

Its easy to use and doesn't require a totally rust free tank. In fact, it prefers some rust.

 

[gsgeezer]

I never use Kreem. I take the tanks off of my old bikes to a local radiator shop that completely sandblasts the inside, then bake on an expoxy coating. Cost: $60.
(If I bought an old bike that already had a Kreemed tank, I wouldn't even start it, I'd take it in to be done right). If you have an old rusted tank, shaking it with some rocks in there isn't going to prep it right, even if you did it for hours. How is Kreem going to stick to that mess?

 

[Nessism]

If you have an old rusted tank, shaking it with some rocks in there isn't going to prep it right, even if you did it for hours. How is Kreem going to stick to that mess?

The Kreem kit, much like the POR kit, comes with a de-rusting phosphate solution to get the rust and prep the surface for the sealer. Sandblasting only works if you cut the tank open so you can get access to blast the inner surface.

 

[JTsGS650]

http://www.por15.com/Data Sheets/cycle tank repair kit.pdf

I used the POR-15 kit on my tank and it worked well. It is also a three part process. The directions explain each part pretty well.

 

[spyug]

I have just done mine with the Caswell Plating product.

I have used Kreeme and POR in the past and both worked well but this stuff is easier to use but there are some caveats.

As Jagjoe mentions this epoxy likes a rough surface and a rusty tank is ideal. I swished a round a pint of acetone and a bunch of drywall screws to knock off the big flakes and the peeling previous liner (Kreeme i think).
Pull out the screws and vacuum out loose flakes.

The mix is 3 to 2 of base to hardner and comes in 1 pint base to 2/3 pint of hardner. The literature mentions that this is enough for 2 x 5 gallon tanks and I believe it.

Me, being a nitwit at heart, mix up the full amount and pour it in. The miss guided logic, " if some is good, more is better". I rotate the mix around for about an hour or so while it is still liquid to get good coverage. Instead of pouring off the excess I let it sit. Problem is I let it sit on one side and the mix "kicks" ( hardens) and I now have a big lump where my sender unit is suppossed to sit. Can't get at it to chip it out. Doh!

Follow the instructions and you should be ok.

I would use this again over the Kreeme and or POR as it saves time by making the tank cleaning process not as critical as with the other products.

Give it a whirl.

Thanks Jag for the suggestion.

Cheers,
Spyug.

 

[Bill Lloyd]

Caveat

Caveat

My mechanic [I am hopeless at anything like this] doesn't like Kreme [Kreem?] and did both my tanks with something else. My caveat: Be sure to free up the little vent holes.... He didn't, and with a hot engine and a load of gas you'll get gas overflowing from the cap.... Not good.

-- Bill

 

[byrdman76]

I've used both. Both are a three-step process to remove the rust, etch the tank, and add a protectant to eliminate rust in the future.

I used Kreme on my first tank two years ago ($30) and the process was simple and effective. It was a little more forgiving than the POR-15 due to the tank not having to be completely dry, and much more material to work with if you screwed up. I haven't had any issues with peeling or flaking with this product to date. I also haven't added any fuel additives, and cannot comment on how it would hold up to these conditions.

I used the POR-15 kit on my latest tank ($45 six months ago) due to the comments I had heard about the Kreme not lasting or holding up and I wasn?t aware of POR-15 having a product specifically for fuel tanks. I have also used POR-15 on many off-road/rust preventative applications and the results are amazing. Probably the closest thing to powder coat. The prep instructions are basically the same. However, the tank must be completely dry. There is a fine between getting the tank completely dry and the inside of the tank beginning to flash due to the chemicals used to etch the tank. I use an industrial heat gun and compressed air to speed up the process. They supply you with considerably less coating material but it is much thinner and flows much easier. Just make sure you get it right the first time.

The end result from my experience is that if done correctly, and the time is taken to complete each step thoroughly, the outcome is pretty much the same. Long-term results may have some merit, but user error could also be a factor. Follow the instructions and you should be fine

Personally - I would stick with the POR-15 kit based on my experience with their other line of products. It?s pretty much why I went with them in the first place. If you need something in a crunch, or something your looking to fix and sell, the Kreme is an alternative - and a very easy product to find.

 

[ironb12s]

Kreem is the bane of the Riders of Vision, the Yamaha XZ550R, which has a tank that WILL rust if steps are not taken to prevent it. The angular design leaves 4 pockets below the petcock where water can and will pool to rust it from the inside out. The Suzuki GS tanks don't have this design, so should be safe without a liner, so long as fuel dryer is in the regular diet.

Water is heavier than fuel, is why the bottoms of most untreated tanks rust out. And, like the ROV, this forum involves folks that tend to hang onto motorcycles longer than the norm, is why Kreem shows degradation. POR-15 and Caswell are both better solutions, but you can get away without lining your tank, if you keep water out of the tank, as in treating the fuel with line drier and keeping the full tank when not riding it. An inline filter can go a long way to saving the parts downstream from the tank, too.

So, if you have a tank that isn't rusty, don't bother lining it, just apply line drier at least once every two weeks, install a filter, and end the rides with filling the tank. :-D

If, OTOH, your tank is rusty or leaking...then, think about lining it. :|

Personally, I've used Kreem in 3 three tanks, have 2 more that were lined from the factory. I've had the Kreem in those tanks for more than 15 years, and have seen none of the problems that most people cite. Butt, I was rather extreeeeem in the preparatory steps before I lined them. There was NO residual PHO or water in the tank when the liner was applied...the tanks sat for more than 24 hours with the PHO in them, or until the bubbles stopped forming, and dried for more than 36 hours after the acetone was used to remove any water. We'll have to wait to see if this treatment makes the Kreem stay put... [-o<

 

[TheCafeKid]

Kreem is the bane of the Riders of Vision, the Yamaha XZ550R, which has a tank that WILL rust if steps are not taken to prevent it. The angular design leaves 4 pockets below the petcock where water can and will pool to rust it from the inside out. The Suzuki GS tanks don't have this design, so should be safe without a liner, so long as fuel dryer is in the regular diet.

Water is heavier than fuel, is why the bottoms of most untreated tanks rust out. And, like the ROV, this forum involves folks that tend to hang onto motorcycles longer than the norm, is why Kreem shows degradation. POR-15 and Caswell are both better solutions, but you can get away without lining your tank, if you keep water out of the tank, as in treating the fuel with line drier and keeping the full tank when not riding it. An inline filter can go a long way to saving the parts downstream from the tank, too.

So, if you have a tank that isn't rusty, don't bother lining it, just apply line drier at least once every two weeks, install a filter, and end the rides with filling the tank. :-D

If, OTOH, your tank is rusty or leaking...then, think about lining it. :|

Personally, I've used Kreem in 3 three tanks, have 2 more that were lined from the factory. I've had the Kreem in those tanks for more than 15 years, and have seen none of the problems that most people cite. Butt, I was rather extreeeeem in the preparatory steps before I lined them. There was NO residual PHO or water in the tank when the liner was applied...the tanks sat for more than 24 hours with the PHO in them, or until the bubbles stopped forming, and dried for more than 36 hours after the acetone was used to remove any water. We'll have to wait to see if this treatment makes the Kreem stay put... [-o<

i just picked up a tank from a fellow member...inside is rusty but doesnt seem flakey...would filling it with water and some abrasive something like screws, and then washing in the acid help without lining it? or should i go the whole route?

 

[ironb12s]

i just picked up a tank from a fellow member...inside is rusty but doesnt seem flakey...would filling it with water and some abrasive something like screws, and then washing in the acid help without lining it? or should i go the whole route?

Water will just aggravate the rust that is there. You can go the route with PHO to remove the rust, available at most hardware stores. You can put the screws in the acid and swirl them around in the tank, just make sure the tank is sealed before you do this and wear protective gear in case something breaks loose. Rinse the acid out with water, remove the water with a bit of acetone, and either line the tank (at this point, all of the prep is done for that) or take the steps I mentioned for the rustless tanks - drier and keep full.

Lining it would be the better choice, that will cover any areas that may develop leaks, and give you more peace of mind. Regardless, install an inline filter to protect the downstream elements. :arrow:

 

[spyug]

Lining the tank is no doubt a fiddly project but a good result can be obtained with any of these products if you follow the instructions.

The Kreeme and POR do require more fastidious prep than the Caswell kit so if rust is an issue and you can't get the tank more or less spotless then the Phenol Novalac epoxy would be the best choice IMHO.

Running a clean tank and keeping it full of gas and free of condensation could be a real trial. For collectors with a megabuck pristine reno and limitless resources (i.e someone like Leno who can afford a live body to look after things for him) that would be the way to go. For the rest of us in the real world then a tank liner makes sense. Done right you will have peace of mind that will last a long time.

In my personal case, the GS came with a tank that had rusted out on the bottom edges and was the reason the PO parked the bike 7 years ago. The tank had been professionally repaired with sheet metal welded in and the PO had tried to seal it with Kreeme but it didn't take. He didn't trust it not to go again so bike went in the garage. Hearing his story and looking at the rusty and flaky inside I knew I'd be doing a sealing job.

Like anything on these old bikes steps sometimes have to be taken to ensure reliability. I put tank sealing in that category.

I'd recommend it for any old bike with the original tank.

Cheers,
Spyug.

 

[TheCafeKid]

Ok next question...what/how did you seal the petcock holes?? I was thinking duct tape but that may just be silly. Any suggestions??

 

[Nessism]

Sealing the petcock hole is easy: get a piece of 1/4" plate steel/aluminum, cut out a rectangle large enough to cover the petcock holes, drill two holes spaced the same as the petcock mounting holes. Now cut out a rubber gasket (I used a piece of rubber hose) and bolt it all together.

 

[TheCafeKid]

Sealing the petcock hole is easy: get a piece of 1/4" plate steel/aluminum, cut out a rectangle large enough to cover the petcock holes, drill two holes spaced the same as the petcock mounting holes. Now cut out a rubber gasket (I used a piece of rubber hose) and bolt it all together.

Simple enough, yet complicated enough to be a pain in the butt hehehe. But that sounds like the best way.