Test ride or no test ride?

[qslim]

I got into this discussion with a few of my friends at the bar the other night (motorcycles parked at home, of course) about whether or not you should expect to ride a private sale bike. My position is that I have never let anyone (except a friend) ride a bike that I have sold, and I've sold plenty of them. Why would I let some stranger get on a bike that I still own? For all I know this guy hasn't been on a bike for a year and will tip it turning out of the driveway, then I'm stuck with a devalued bike I'm trying to sell and no recourse as to what happened.
On the flip side, I've never expected to ride a bike that I have purchased. If you've spent enough time around bikes, I think you can get enough of a good idea as to whether or not its a good buy without riding it. Start it up, climb on, move the suspension, run through the gears, etc... That's what I've always done without a problem.
One of my buddies maintains that he would never dream of buying a bike without riding it first, and if one does not offer test rides he will be hard pressed to sell his bike, but I just don't see it. Anyone?

 

[chiphead]

I guess the only way I would let someone ride a bike I'm selling is if we agree on a price and they put the cash in my hand. Then it would be a gentleman's agreement that if they don't like it, I'll just hand the cash back. If they crash it, I'll sign the title over to them and call a wrecker for them. I would expect the same if I'm buying a bike. The 1100 I bought was in such sad shape that it wasn't ridable so it was a leap of faith but it was also short money.

 

[tkent02]

I'd never buy one without a ride...
Too much you can't tell. The exception is a low buck deal, not running or basket case or whatever.
When selling I let them ride if I hold the money. Maybe not all the money but a good portion of it. If they have to wait to get the money it just makes them want it more.
I take another bike with more gas in it. The one for sale is near empty. Lead them on a safe easy ride away from traffic.
Find an open road to gas it.
That or I will ride them around double all they want.

 

[NE750E]

I bought my first bike, just last fall, after the previous owner almost demanded I take it for a ride. Even after I informed him that this was my first bike and my only experience on bikes was at the MSF. I think you can judge a persons intent after a short conversation. It?s more of a seat of the pants approach but there are some people I would never let ride my bike, if I were to sell it, just by the way they act.

 

[earlfor]

Your position mirrors my own. I advertise for sale bikes with the notation, "no rides". The reason I do that now is I have had two prospective buyers crash two of my bikes in less than five minutes. Holding money does you no good. Both "crashers" demanded all their money back, would not pay for damage and basically told me it was a risk I should be prepared to take in selling a bike. Legally, and technically, they had my permission to ride the bike, so its my responsibility. You could go to court, but there is no chance you will win and you cant make them pay. Buyers say they know how to ride, but they dont tell you they rode a Honda 50cc 25 years ago and have no idea of the difference between that and the CBR1100xx you are selling.
One guy didnt make it out of my driveway before running head on into a tree. Seems he knew how to ride allright, he just had never learned how to turn. If a buyer shows up riding a comparable bike and has a motorcycle endorsement, I'm much more inclined to let them test ride. I depends entirely on the person and my impression of them. By advertising no rides, it lets me be selective of who I will let on my bike and increases my chances of keeping it in one piece.

Earl

I got into this discussion with a few of my friends at the bar the other night (motorcycles parked at home, of course) about whether or not you should expect to ride a private sale bike. My position is that I have never let anyone (except a friend) ride a bike that I have sold, and I've sold plenty of them. Why would I let some stranger get on a bike that I still own? For all I know this guy hasn't been on a bike for a year and will tip it turning out of the driveway, then I'm stuck with a devalued bike I'm trying to sell and no recourse as to what happened.
On the flip side, I've never expected to ride a bike that I have purchased. If you've spent enough time around bikes, I think you can get enough of a good idea as to whether or not its a good buy without riding it. Start it up, climb on, move the suspension, run through the gears, etc... That's what I've always done without a problem.
One of my buddies maintains that he would never dream of buying a bike without riding it first, and if one does not offer test rides he will be hard pressed to sell his bike, but I just don't see it. Anyone?

 

[bonanzadave]

Dude and his sister showed up at my house on a CBR600 to look at my CM400T for her. It took him a long time to get it started. Kill switch was off. He rode it. They liked it. She bought it. Alls Well.

 

[Desolation Angel]

Nope. Too much liability. When it falls over on the buyer or he gooses it into a tree or car, you're in deep dodo.

 

[GregM.]

It all depends, I wouldn't make a hard and fast rule. I agree with all the above comments.
Right now, I'm shopping for another bike in addition to my GS. And sure... I would like to test ride it. However, it wasn't something either one of us brought up on the phone either, when we discussed the bike. Then when I got there... riding up on my 850... and we've been discussing m/c stuff for a while... I've taken it for a ride.
I'm prepared to show them my m/c endorsement (but no one except the m/c stores have asked to see it yet), and I want them to feel Ok about me riding their bike so I do and say all the right things. I'm 49, and the bikes I'm looking at haven't been owned by kids, so far. And no one has asked me to hand over cash, or follow me on another bike yet... although I think that would be an Ok idea. I guess I look trustworthy (little do they know) :-D and so far, 6 times in the last few months, it's worked out.

On the other hand -- A guy I work with, who's 22 years old and is selling his sport bike. Three months ago, he met a prospective buyer for his bike at a shopping center, he was also early 20's. Apparently, this guy said all the right stuff, had a good long conversation, then asked to test ride it. Steve said Ok. The guy rode off and never came back. STOLEN BIKE. Steve's dad is a cop... through some amazing luck, it was found 2 weeks later. Not wrecked, but beat-up a little.
In talking about this later, there were a number of precautions Steve could've taken, but didn't. We're all a little more informed now.

Anyway, like I said, it all depends.

 

[MissFabulous]

It's funny... I've read several buying and selling guides. The buying guides say to demand a test ride. The selling guides say never to let them do it.

I think the no test rides policy is perfectly fair, IF the buyer shows up and the bike is cold and they can get on it and start it themselves. If it's been warmed up before the buyer shows up then it might be to hide problems.

Communication ahead of time is everything. Talk to a seller enough and you should be able to tell if they're being at least reasonably honest. Anything used is going to have problems of some kind, minor or major. The major ones should be pretty easy to spot if you know what you're looking for. "Needs battery" and "ran when parked" and phrases like that are good tip offs. Ask lots of questions. If you don't get answers by email, call them (some people are better at speaking than writing) and if you still have a lot of questions go unanswered, something is up.

 

[bonanzadave]

So why then, when I go look at the fleet of used bikes at the dealer, do I get asked more than once "Do you want to ride it ?" Dealers must carry some heavy insurance or go with the U break it U buy it rule.

 

[earlfor]

Dealers DO carry some HEAVY DUTY insurance for that.

E.

So why then, when I go look at the fleet of used bikes at the dealer, do I get asked more than once "Do you want to ride it ?" Dealers must carry some heavy insurance or go with the U break it U buy it rule.

 

[Jethro]

Dealers around here do not allow you to test ride new bikes. I shopped for a long time and always asked about a test ride. The only chance I had was a shop that had a tech with the bike I was interested in. I declined the ride since I didn't want to ride someone elses bike. For used bikes it must be different, but for new bikes it's a leap of faith.

 

[bwringer]

My personal policy is NO test rides.

The way around this is to offer to demonstrate the bike for the buyer. They buyer follows or leads on his/her bike or car, and I go through several maneuvers designed to show proper function and performance, explaining everything at each step. You need some fairly empty roads, of course, and ideally a few places where the other person can pull alongside while you're moving.

This gives the buyer a far more thorough test than he could have performed on an unfamiliar bike, and keeps everyone safer. The buyer can sit on the bike to see how it fits, but only when the key is in my pocket.

The sequence goes something like this:

Pre-ride check: T-CLOCK; show lack of leaks

Cold start - show how easily it starts and idles

During warmup, demonstrate all lights and electrics working and explain/demonstrate suspension settings and any adjustments. Demonstrate charging system function.

Demonstrate slow speed/maneuverability -- show how tractable and smooth the engine and clutch are with slow speed maneuvering in street and driveway.

Road test - demonstrate shifting and maneuverability with "ordinary" riding, with buyer following and listening.

Performance - demonstrate that transmission doesn't jump out of gear under hard acceleration; demonstrate maximum roll-on performance from top gear and relatively low RPM. Demonstrate that bike does not pop, smoke or leak under acceration or deceleration. Demonstrate safe cornering, braking, and avoidance maneuvers if you can find a safe spot for buyer to observe.

Post-ride/cooldown: show that there are no leaks or awkward sounds; that jetting is correct (idle steady, engine/pipes not overheated); demonstrate quick restart when warm.

Everbody wins -- you avoid the heartache of a wrecked or stolen bike and the buyer gets a much more thorough idea of the bike's condition and capabilities by seeing it put through its paces by someone familiar with the bike and its handling.

Under no circumstances do I leave my plate on the bike -- the bike goes on the buyer's trailer or pickup, or I ride the bike to the buyer's house then take my plate with me. If the buyer asks, I'm also usually happy to store the bike for a few days while they get a plate, or otherwise assist with transportation.

 

[GregM.]

Wow bwinger... Awesome - I want to buy a bike from you.:-D No seriously:-D
But as far as removing the plate, that is very clear and done quite differently from state to state... in many western states the plate stays with the vehicle. See Earl's question here from just the other day, for info:
http://www.thegsresources.com/_forum/showthread.php?t=105878

Dealers: Yeah, I've never asked about test riding a "new" bike. I'm sure Jethro's right... may vary for state to state. But (around here) used bikes - yes, they'll let you ride. I'm sure it's up to their discretion, you know, profiling you... and then they do look at your license and fill out some paperwork. And for sure, they've gotta have insurance for doing it.

I would never expect a test ride from a private seller, but I do hope for one... and so far, it's worked out. It all depends.

Some day, when I sell a bike though... I will consider all the above. Good stuff \\/

 

[78GS750]

Pretty simple....

Pretty simple....

Pretty simple for me. No ride, no buy. I'll just walkaway.
Would you buy a car without a test drive ? Same thing.
Simple Huh ?!! :-D

 

[bwringer]

Pretty simple for me. No ride, no buy. I'll just walkaway.
Would you buy a car without a test drive ? Same thing.
Simple Huh ?!! :-D

No, it's not that simple, and it's not the same thing at all. Motorcycles are not just cars with missing wheels.

The difference is that most drivers actually do have the skills to operate an unfamiliar car or truck safely, and you can ride along to at least ensure that they're facing kidnapping charges if they try to steal it.

Very few riders can reliably and safely operate an unfamiliar motorcycle, and a motorcycle test ride offers an increased opportunity for a dishonest person.

The basic reality is that motorcycles are roughly 5-10 times more challenging to operate safely than cars, and the variations in control feel, etc. between models have a lot more impact than the variations between four wheeled vehicles.

It's much safer for U-Haul to toss you the key to a 24 foot truck (even if you've only ever driven a subcompact) than it would be for me to toss the key to my GS to a rider of unknown skill. The stakes are higher, too -- a lot of U-Haul trucks end up with roof damage because new drivers aren't used to the height, but injuries are rare. The consequences of a motorcycle accident almost always involve injury, often serious.

Besides, how much can you learn about a bike on the first ride? On your first ride on an unfamiliar bike, you should be concentrating 100% on survival, not wondering if that noise is normal.

The one problem with doing a demonstration instead of a test ride is that it's difficult for the buyer to decide whether the motorcycle fits him personally and "feels" right once underway.

Given that most aspects of the rider/machine interface are adjustable and should be adjusted to fit each rider (different handlebars, grips, adjusting controls, reshaping or replacing seat, etc.) I think you can easily decide whether a bike is in the ballpark without riding it. More than that, you can't really evaluate anyway without riding a couple thousand miles and changing/adjusting parts along the way.

Basically, I think a short test ride is mostly pointless and very dangerous. Not worth it.

I have offered a "tail light warranty" in the past -- if you buy it and decide it doesn't feel right before the tail light is out of my sight, I'll take it back and refund your money (minus the $21 fee to replace the title).

Some rare dealers, like Bob's BMW, allow and encourage longer, more useful test rides, but they also require a deposit, a credit check, evidence of adequate training, equipment, and skill, (don't show up in a battered Chevy, buy your first helmet, and expect to go ride for free...) and basically have all the legal and liability aspects covered to manage the risks. This is not something available to private parties.

I have allowed a very few individuals (exactly two, actually) to ride or test ride my bikes, but these are people I know personally and whom I know firsthand to be very skilled, very safe riders.

 

[earlfor]

OOps, I was referring to used bikes being sold by dealers and test rides allowed. No dealers I know of allow test rides on new bikes.

E.

Dealers around here do not allow you to test ride new bikes. I shopped for a long time and always asked about a test ride. The only chance I had was a shop that had a tech with the bike I was interested in. I declined the ride since I didn't want to ride someone elses bike. For used bikes it must be different, but for new bikes it's a leap of faith.

 

[earlfor]

Thats not a problem to me. I had much rather keep the bike than risk it.

E.

Pretty simple for me. No ride, no buy. I'll just walkaway.
Would you buy a car without a test drive ? Same thing.
Simple Huh ?!! :-D

 

[GregM.]

Besides, how much can you learn about a bike on the first ride? On your first ride on an unfamiliar bike, you should be concentrating 100% on survival, not wondering if that noise is normal.

Basically, I think a short test ride is mostly pointless and very dangerous. Not worth it.

Just a comment on this...probably for most instances this would be true. But in my case right now... it depends.
See, I'm thinking about adding another used bike to my garage... a Kaw. Concours. For the model years I'm looking at, they were basically all the same bike, just differrent colors for each year. Many owners of these sport-tourers have changed seats, bars, pegs and windscreens which obviously affect riding position and comfort. For me, I have sat on a lot of these bikes and, now, ridden several. And I am getting an idea of what will work with my old rickety :-D self, and what I'll probably change.
And maintenance, mileage and upkeep can obviously, affect lots of vibration, noise and performance variables. The differences are subtle, cause the bikes are all practically identical... But after you look, listen, ride enough of them, you get an idea which one you want. Plus, I've been reading the owner's group website for quite a while, so I know some of the concerns.

Time is on my side, as these bikes don't sell very fast, and I like my 850, so I'm not in a hurry. But I'd like to add a Concours, and will, when I find the right one. I'm always very honest with the sellers, that I am just shopping, but I am going to buy one. I meet them where ever they want, at what ever time is convenient for them. I'm polite and thank them for their time, and one of these days, when I find the right one, and I'll know it. I'll hand them a fist full of dollars (or hundreds, actually) :-D and that'll do it.

I always ride my 850 to see each one... So, I've got a great comparison. I'm actually finding out how nice my GS is. Anyway, I am safe on their bikes, and I think they know that after we talk for a while. My test rides have all been around 20 min, which doesn't tell me everything, but enough, that I am noticing differences.
So for me, looking at some bikes that are all practically the same, the test ride is helpful. But again, like I said earlier, I don't expect it. And I do understand the seller's point of view.
BTW- I'm not doing this every week for a year. I've done it 6 times in three months. And 1/2 of those have been dealers, the others were private sellers. I'm done now, and am ready to pick one. \\/
This thread has tons of helpful stuff... thanks all -

 

[gasisontheright]

I'd let em testride on the deal that if it's dropped/wrecked they pay full price for it, and cash in hand, WRITTEN DOWN!!!, no verbal agreement about it. I'm more leniant if they ride another bike there to look at it, and have a license, not a permit.