The Saga continues....now on to the Ignition

[Anonymous]

Well, got the carbs on my 78 GS1000, and to a position where the bike should start given the proper parts (air, fuel, spark, compression).

Well, today I tried to start her up to no avail (starter turns, and engine cranks, but it doesnt start). I changed out the plugs (had the old ones in), and still nothing. I pulled one plug out and grounded it, then tried to start the bike and it didnt look like there was even any spark. Im gonna go get some starter fluid soon to try and see if it will fire with that (to rule out that the carb cleaning I did isnt the problem). Thing is I still need some help.

1. How do I test the coils to see if they are dead (the 4 wires that connect to the coils are not disconnected)?
2. I think there is an electronic ignition on the bike (not sure what kind). How can I tell if it has one?
3. Are there any other places to check for bad connections that would allow the starter to run, but not the ignition?

 

[Anonymous]

Check out the wires.

Check out the wires.

Check out the wires. Lots of times the coils and wires are still good, but they need to be cut back about 1/3" to freshen up the end. Put the caps back on and try it out.

I don't think you have resistor caps because you don't have the electronic ignition.

If your bike does have an electronic ignition get rid of the old caps and buy some new NGK resistor caps.

My resistor caps were old and shot. Lots of guys and gals on this site are probably running bad caps with burnt resistors.

 

[Anonymous]

Resistor caps?

I dont eve know if I HAVE an electronic ignition, let alone what a resistor cap is

Im a newbie to these bikes and am learning along the way, so please bear with me.

 

[earlfor]

To troubleshoot it and get it running, we first need to know what it is we are trying to get running. On the right side of the engine, over where the end of the crankshaft would be, you will see a 6" round cover that is held in place with three screws, Remove the three screws and cover. The ignition is underneath. If you see two sets of metal contact points and two small metal cans (condensors), then you have a points ignition system.

If you see two black phenolic plastic sensors, you have an electronic ignition.

Let us know which you have.

Earl

Resistor caps?

I dont eve know if I HAVE an electronic ignition, let alone what a resistor cap is

Im a newbie to these bikes and am learning along the way, so please bear with me.

 

[Anonymous]

Well, I knew that was where the ignition was so I pulled the cover off this afternoon. After getting it off, there were no points present or anything I could recognize. All there was was a large black plastic disk with 3 screws in it (which if you loosened you could rotate the black thing around). On it, was the word Martek.

There was a wire leading out form under the ignition cover, but I never followed it to see where it went.

 

[earlfor]

The wire casing coming out from under the ignition has two wires, a black and a white. One goes to the neg terminal of your left coil and the other connects to the negative terminal of the right coil. I dont have a martek ignition and have no experience with them. I doubt they set up any differently than any other electronic ignition. The problem is I cant tell you step by step where the marks are and how to set it. Someone on here HAS to be using one though as they are not that rare.

Does anyone know if a Martek uses a box like a Dyna III or is it a "standalone" like a Dyna "S"? Electronic advance, or counterweight advance?

Earl

Well, I knew that was where the ignition was so I pulled the cover off this afternoon. After getting it off, there were no points present or anything I could recognize. All there was was a large black plastic disk with 3 screws in it (which if you loosened you could rotate the black thing around). On it, was the word Martek.

There was a wire leading out form under the ignition cover, but I never followed it to see where it went.

 

[Anonymous]

If I remember correctly, I believe the wires from the coils (may just be the positive ones) go to a small black box (about the size of an automotive relay) that has the word "Nippon" on it.

And Im assuming from your response that I DO have an electronic Ig.

Until we get some response from others on how to set it up, could you tell me how to test the coils to see if theyre good?

 

[KEITH KRAUSE]

I had a Martek ignition back around 1981? It DOES have a seperate "black box". I mounted mine behind the right side battery cover.
About the size of a cig' pack.
It worked with the mechanical advancer. I had a problem with the set screw that secures the advancer ring (with the magnet in it) coming loose a couple of times. Make sure that advancer ring is tight. If it's just loose on the shaft, it sometimes won't turn. The magnet won't pass and complete the circuit so no spark. Mine just completely died about 4-5 years later and I went with the Dyna. Sorry I can't remember more.

 

[earlfor]

Sure, set your multimeter to the ohms scale x1 range. Disconnect the wires to the positive and negative terminal of your coil. (coils are unpowered for this test) Check the resistance between the two terminals. It should be 3 ohms. According to Suzuki, anything between 2 and 5 ohms is servicable. Then set your meter to the 200K ohms scale. (coils are unpowered for this test) Put one test probe into the clip in the spark plug cap of cylinder 1 and 4
for one coil and caps 2 and 3 for the other coil. Resistance should be between 30 and 50 K.

Earl

Until we get some response from others on how to set it up, could you tell me how to test the coils to see if theyre good?

 

[Anonymous]

Well, good news is the coils ARE good. Went out to check, and doing the + / - on the coil power came to 4 ohms. Going across 1/4 and 2/3 yielded just UNDER 30k ohms. I presume since its like 29k Ohms that the coils are still good since lower is usually better than higher, and they were both the same.


So im now believing that it IS the aftermarket electronic Ig. Would it be smart of me to just buy the 99$ Dyna-S and remove the current one instead of try to get this one working since it seems to be less popular and may be less reliable.

Also, there was some cardboard gasket (absolutely destroyed) inside the ignition cover, where can I get a new one, since this one is all moldy and crap?

 

[earlfor]

I dont know if Martek still makes ignitions or if service for them is available.
My choice would be either install a Dyna "S", or convert it to a points ignition.
Your year bike has the mechanical advance beneath the breaker plate that is required for either the Dyna or a points conversion.

Earl

So im now believing that it IS the aftermarket electronic Ig. Would it be smart of me to just buy the 99$ Dyna-S and remove the current one instead of try to get this one working since it seems to be less popular and may be less reliable.

 

[Anonymous]

What about the Dyna III Ignition? I mean, since I dont know whats going on with this bike or how much more money im willing to put into it, and since its 150$ less than the Dyna-S.

Do you think the ignition has been modified enough so that I can still use the Dyna-S or Dyna III?

 

[earlfor]

A 1978 GS1000 was manufactured with a points ignition system that had a mechanical advance unit. The mechanical advance is located beneath the breaker plate. The Martek ignition also uses the original mechanical advance. When the martek unit was installed, the original points breaker plate was replaced by the Martek electronic breaker assembly. No modifications have been made. Just part swaps. The only concern you have is that both Dyna types require that you have a mechanical advance mechanism and you do have one, so no problem using either Dyna.

From a cost standpoint, it would be much cheaper to make a post in the parts wanted section for a breaker plate and points cam lobe and hold down screw that fits on the crank end.. Then all you would need would be a pair of pointsets and a couple of condensors. (about 25-30$ new and available through cyclerecycle) I still run points on my 750E and I get about 15,000 miles to a set of points, so it isnt as if you have to change them every time you put gas in the bike.

Earl

What about the Dyna III Ignition? I mean, since I dont know whats going on with this bike or how much more money im willing to put into it, and since its 150$ less than the Dyna-S.

Do you think the ignition has been modified enough so that I can still use the Dyna-S or Dyna III?

 

[Anonymous]

I did as was Quoted below , becaue i figured i was having ingition problems (it would lightly pop out both exhust pipes, crossover pipe removed and replaced with straight pipe on each side, because the crossover was leaking and that was my 1st thought of the poping),
and i got 44k Ohms on on the 2&3 coil and 88k ohms on the 1&4 coil, and got 4.7 on both the connectors.

Would that 88k Ohms on 1&4 weeken the spark and allow unburnt fuel to pop out the exhust?

thanks
Lennie

Sure, set your multimeter to the ohms scale x1 range. Disconnect the wires to the positive and negative terminal of your coil. (coils are unpowered for this test) Check the resistance between the two terminals. It should be 3 ohms. According to Suzuki, anything between 2 and 5 ohms is servicable. Then set your meter to the 200K ohms scale. (coils are unpowered for this test) Put one test probe into the clip in the spark plug cap of cylinder 1 and 4
for one coil and caps 2 and 3 for the other coil. Resistance should be between 30 and 50 K.

Earl

Until we get some response from others on how to set it up, could you tell me how to test the coils to see if theyre good?

 

[earlfor]

88K ohms resistance is too much. The spark plug caps are supposed to be 5K resistance, so if you unscrew/remove the caps and check them individually for resistance, you will know if your caps are faulty or if it is your coil. Usually popping out the exhaust is a sign of a lean condition. Removing the crossover pipe will increase a lean condition. I suspect that with the straight pipes, the problem is now worse.

Earl

I did as was Quoted below , becaue i figured i was having ingition problems (it would lightly pop out both exhust pipes, crossover pipe removed and replaced with straight pipe on each side, because the crossover was leaking and that was my 1st thought of the poping),
and i got 44 Ohms on on the 2&3 coil and 88 ohms on the 1&4 coil, and got 4.7 on both the connectors.

Would that 88 Ohms on 1&4 weeken the spark and allow unburnt fuel to pop out the exhust?

thanks
Lennie

Sure, set your multimeter to the ohms scale x1 range. Disconnect the wires to the positive and negative terminal of your coil. (coils are unpowered for this test) Check the resistance between the two terminals. It should be 3 ohms. According to Suzuki, anything between 2 and 5 ohms is servicable. Then set your meter to the 200K ohms scale. (coils are unpowered for this test) Put one test probe into the clip in the spark plug cap of cylinder 1 and 4
for one coil and caps 2 and 3 for the other coil. Resistance should be between 30 and 50 K.

Earl

Until we get some response from others on how to set it up, could you tell me how to test the coils to see if theyre good?

 

[Anonymous]

Well the poping has not changed (louder or more freakntly) since i replaced the crossover pipe with 2 little straight bypass pipes, and i will check the caps tommarow.

A friend also said the poping could be lean, all the plugs were new and the conditions looked the same light white on the tab, one person told me that was normal, another said lean.

I will get back with what the caps are like and then go to the carbs next.

Thanks Alot
Lennie

 

[earlfor]

White is too blasted lean. Trust me on this.

Earl

A friend also said the poping could be lean, all the plugs were new and the conditions looked the same light white on the tab, one person told me that was normal, another said lean.

Thanks Alot
Lennie

 

[Anonymous]

I just had to check it, tonight.

I pulled the caps off of the 1&4 coil ends and got 9k from the 1 and could not get a reading from the other(it tried, but was around 300k :? )
And without the ends, I was getting around 19+ ohms on the coil.


Lennie

Edit: Thanks for letting me know it is too lean.

 

[earlfor]

replace the spark plug caps. I assume you mean you are getting 19K ohms on the bare spark plug wires.

Earl

I just had to check it, tonight.

I pulled the caps off of the 1&4 coil ends and got 9k from the 1 and could not get a reading from the other(it tried, but was around 300k :? )
And with out the ends, I was getting around 19+ ohms.


Lennie

Edit: Thanks for letting me know it is too lean.

 

[Anonymous]

ya 19k Ohms