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this may be wrong, but work with me...

  • Thread starter Thread starter snowbeard
  • Start date Start date
S

snowbeard

Guest
so has anybody ever made an electric/electronic petcock?

I was thinking the other day, if one could get a 12V or smaller solenoid, couldn't it be possible to work it as a petcock on our machines? you could have a prime function, if not reserve.

a few drawbacks are energy consumption perhaps, but even bigger, the spark hazard... 8O


ok, what d'ya's think???
 
oh, but the spark hazard is icing on the cake!

FOOL YOUR FRIENDS! THE INCREDIBLE EXPLODING GS! :D

you've found a moneymaker ;)

(kidding, kidding)
 
It has been done on a few Yamaha models, nothing unusual. As for fire, that shouldn't be an issue, for you have no vapor, it is all liquid fuel running through there, and as we know, raw fuel burns really poorly (if at all).

Kenny
 
A solenoid by itself won't spark - it's just a coil of wire. It should be safe enough for a fuel valve. Only contacts that break a current will spark.

I think the biggest issue is finding an electric signal that comes on when you want it to. The nice thing about using vacuum is that it's only "on" when the engine is turning (which is usually the only time you want the fuel to flow). Among electrical circuits on the bike, you get pretty much either "ignition on" or "starter on." There are cases where your ignition switch may be turned on but the engine is not running. You probbaly don't want fuel to flow then. And only delivering fuel when pressing the starter button doesn't accomplish much.

I looked into getting a remote controlled starter for my wife's car. It needed a vacuum sensor to know when the engine was running so it could quit cranking the starter. That right there tells me there's no electrical signal that says "engine is on."

A fuel-injected car might have such a signal, since it has an electric fuel pump. Or the pump may just come on when the car's ignition switch is on. You can get away with doing that because most car ignitions have an accessory position for turning on electrical stuff without actually turning on the car. Bikes (at least my bike) don't have that luxury.

Current drawn by the solenoid coil shouldn't be too big an issue. Like ignition, it's only on when the engine is running or when you're starting. And the valve doesn't need to be very big, so it wouldn't have to be a large coil.

But engine vacuum is free, vacuum hose is cheap, and it's on when you want it. I think Suzuki made a good choice from a cost standpoint.

Dave

P.S. If you wanted to go the manual petcock route a solenoid valve wouldn't be a bad choice. You could mount the fuel switch anywhere. D.
 
Why not use keyed power? At least on the bike, if the key is on, it should be running, or will be within seconds.

Kenny
 
If you're looking for a commercially available solenoid, try any place that sells car alarms. Some car alarm systems have an automatic fuel shut off. They could probably be adapted quite easily. Just a thought.
 
I don't know if it would swap, but the Yamaha V-max uses a switch on the handlebars to switch to reserve.
 
Why not just put a manual valve in?

Why not just put a manual valve in?

I hate to stop this great discussion, but why not just put a manual valve in? It never messes up, It is what other bikes use and if you have your floats set right and ride often enough there is no need for vacuum/electric/magical fuel switches. Just my opinion, the technology when it comes to a simple fuel valve usually ends up being a headache!
 
Re: Why not just put a manual valve in?

Re: Why not just put a manual valve in?

KrazyKarl02 said:
I hate to stop this great discussion, but why not just put a manual valve in? It never messes up, It is what other bikes use and if you have your floats set right and ride often enough there is no need for vacuum/electric/magical fuel switches. Just my opinion, the technology when it comes to a simple fuel valve usually ends up being a headache!
Click to expand...

I have the same issue with choke actuators. Leave them on the carbs, it's much simplier. With the stupid bar mount things you have to worry about a cable, which is just extra crap. To make matters worse, is that STUPID "pull the clutch in before it will start" switch! I think I'm gonna disable that, there is no need for it, I know when my bike is in neutral! :evil:
 
I for one think that if you want a solenoid controlled fuel switch, go for it. My petcock was all bent out of shape and leaking when I got my bike and I did away with it (no spares here, and I am very careful with money) and have a brass tap, carefully hidden under the tank... I have given up using it as I forget to turn it on and get about 50yrds up the road and stall... Not good.

I guess it would really annoy anyone who stole my bike though...

CJ
 
my 2 cents

an oil pressure switch, Normally open, could be used with a relay to provide engine running electrical power.

Some Onan generators have a 12vdc, 10 watt continuous duty fuel solenoid part number 307-1279. With the (2) items listed above a reliable and working fuel control could be developed. You could also hide-a-way a switch that could interupt power to the solenoid to thwart unauthorized drive-aways. Option (2) If you use a double pole relay and a momentary switch you could device a circuit whereby the momentary switch must be held to activate the relay and fuel solenoid during starting. That way, theft prevention would always be active as you would need to push the momentary switch initially to complete the circuit alowing the relay circuit to hold itself closed, providing power to the fuel solenoid. When the ignition is turned off, the relay returns to normally open and the sequence must be activated again with the next restart. No momentary switch pushed, relay doesn't close, fuel doesen't flow. Been there. Still have it working on my 1957 Chevy after 35 years.
 
nert said:
my 2 cents

an oil pressure switch, Normally open, could be used with a relay to provide engine running electrical power.

Some Onan generators have a 12vdc, 10 watt continuous duty fuel solenoid part number 307-1279. With the (2) items listed above a reliable and working fuel control could be developed. You could also hide-a-way a switch that could interupt power to the solenoid to thwart unauthorized drive-aways. Option (2) If you use a double pole relay and a momentary switch you could device a circuit whereby the momentary switch must be held to activate the relay and fuel solenoid during starting. That way, theft prevention would always be active as you would need to push the momentary switch initially to complete the circuit alowing the relay circuit to hold itself closed, providing power to the fuel solenoid. When the ignition is turned off, the relay returns to normally open and the sequence must be activated again with the next restart. No momentary switch pushed, relay doesn't close, fuel doesen't flow. Been there. Still have it working on my 1957 Chevy after 35 years.
Click to expand...

Good idea! You could parallel the oil pressure switch and the momentary switch. Or, if you didn't want to mess with another momentary switch, you could use the starter circuit in parallel with the oil pressure switch.

Dave
 
Another issue is available space...especially if you already have an inline fuel filter. While I deal with industrial solenoids and they are kind of large and bulky and would be hard to neatly tuck under the engine.

Hap
 
my 2 cents

an oil pressure switch, Normally open, could be used with a relay to provide engine running electrical power.

Some Onan generators have a 12vdc, 10 watt continuous duty fuel solenoid part number 307-1279. With the (2) items listed above a reliable and working fuel control could be developed. You could also hide-a-way a switch that could interupt power to the solenoid to thwart unauthorized drive-aways. Option (2) If you use a double pole relay and a momentary switch you could device a circuit whereby the momentary switch must be held to activate the relay and fuel solenoid during starting. That way, theft prevention would always be active as you would need to push the momentary switch initially to complete the circuit alowing the relay circuit to hold itself closed, providing power to the fuel solenoid. When the ignition is turned off, the relay returns to normally open and the sequence must be activated again with the next restart. No momentary switch pushed, relay doesn't close, fuel doesen't flow. Been there. Still have it working on my 1957 Chevy after 35 years.
 
Check with a Moto Guzzi dealer/service dept. They use electric petcocks.
 
Thanks for all the replies, sounds like it could be done, now I'll just have to see if I happen on any of the right pieces! :wink: so far it was just a vague idea, as my petcock works now (esp if I remember not to leave it on prime :roll: ) but I wondered if it was even worth continuing to think about, or just a really dumb idea 8O

how about that brown aux wire I've heard about, it has power when the key is on, right? actually, I thought any of the electrics that are on when you turn the key could be tapped into, but with our notorious electrical systems, I don't know that I should even try!!!

great ideas!! :D
 
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