Tired of wasting money on jets!

[tejasmud]

Here is a page I came across, don't know how valid, but interesting.

http://www.braigasen.com/Fuel_Flow_Charts_Mikuni.htm

I was looking for needle sizes, fuel flow comparisons for VM33s. Still looking for a set of 29s, but have not found them yet.

On the 700E I plan to attempt to tune or de-tune VM33s. Yes, I know they will be a challenge, may not or may be too big, but if one knows the measure of the AFR it might help in getting them set.

Currently, I have purchased 3 sizes of air jets, 6 sizes of main jets, 3-4 sizes of pilot jets, and 2 sizes of leaner needles with new 261 0-6 needle jets. Have not ventured into the slide angles yet. Need to determine some richer needles, possibly multiple taper needles.

700E with 4-1 V&H megaphone pipe and K&Ns vs. VM33s, then on to VM29s if I can get a set at a reasonable price.

I will be using an Innovate LM1, with the LMA3.

This will measure WB-AFR, G-force, RPM/via inductive clamp, MPH/once I rig up a hall sensor and collar, MAP, and maybe a CHT. I really want to get a TPS hooked up, and will probably do this instead of CHT.

CVs? Tuning them in can be done with pods, but it really helps to know.

With an Innovate LC1 all it takes is wacking the throttle wide open once, and you know which direction to go with the jetting.

Yes, it is expensive, but the set-up LM1 + LMA3 + sensors runs under $1K. Tune a bike, run it as stand alone, or use it for the next bike.

LC-1 and DB guage runs under $250.

I wish it was as easy as just buying jets.







My name is Eric, and I'm an addict....

Sorry....... Continue......

 

[Road_Clam]

I But the bottom line is simply that the STOCK MiC needles will NEVER work with pods. They simply cant deliver the fuel fast enough in the midrange,

Sorry, you're wrong. Be patient until I get the the Cycle Workd article posted (or just d/l the one that srsupertrap has linked), read the article a few times, as it has SO much info and data, then you will see the true dyno findings and corrective results. The stock needles are fine with some modifications to the stock shimming configuration. You don't need to spend extra money on differnet needles. The only difference between an excellent running modified GS, and a pi$$ poor running modified GS is DYNO TUNING.

This is the #1 reason I am TOTALLY against adding pods.... slap pods on a stock, or mildly jetted GS, and the bike will run absolutely horrible unless you can put the bike on a dyno... BUT there is a way to really get some impressive hp gains by tweaking jetting, if you know systematically what and where to extrude the hp.

 

[blowerbike]

the ridabilty and the smoothness of rpm transition will never be as good with stock needles as with DJ st.3 needles.w/(individial filters)
DJ has made several changes in the GS1100/1150 jet kits/needles over the years.
i see all the same questions and the p*ssing and moaning about peoples vaccum carbs not running properly and then you come to find out that they removed the airbox and installed "pods" and big main jets.
if a jet kit is offered for your bike..buy it/install it/ and move on to a differant area of the bike to work on..dont make a life long project out of jetting your carbs.
stock needles will NEVER have the same ridabily as DJ needles on GS vaccum carbs that has had the airbox removed.
*note
i have a large amount of the cycle/cycle world/motorcyclist/cycle guide ect... magazines from years gone by in my closet.
word of mouth or these magazines was the only way to learn from before the invent of the internet.
i always looked forward to joe menton's articals and jeff karr's adventures/mad mel's turbo honda/suz V&H write up's ect.. to name a few.
i do miss those days!

 

[Road_Clam]

the ridabilty and the smoothness of rpm transition will never be as good with stock needles as with DJ st.3 needles.w/(individial filters)
DJ has made several changes in the GS1100/1150 jet kits/needles over the years.
i see all the same questions and the p*ssing and moaning about peoples vaccum carbs not running properly and then you come to find out that they removed the airbox and installed "pods" and big main jets.
if a jet kit is offered for your bike..buy it/install it/ and move on to a differant area of the bike to work on..dont make a life long project out of jetting your carbs.
stock needles will NEVER have the same ridabily as DJ needles on GS vaccum carbs that has had the airbox removed.
*note
i have a large amount of the cycle/cycle world/motorcyclist/cycle guide ect... magazines from years gone by in my closet.
word of mouth or these magazines was the only way to learn from before the invent of the internet.
i always looked forward to joe menton's articals and jeff karr's adventures/mad mel's turbo honda/suz V&H write up's ect.. to name a few.
i do miss those days!

There prabably is a "better" needle now (25 years later) but remember, the article I was referring to was testing a GS1100 back in 1983 when there was not a lot of data gathered yet on the TSCC Suzukis.

I believe what the Kerker dyno staff did was swap the stock needle plastic spacer from the underside of the slide to the top. This richens up the needle circiut. The article is slightly unclear as to exactly how they "re-shimmed" the needle, but this is how I am interperting what they did.

 

[TheCafeKid]

Sorry, you're wrong. Be patient until I get the the Cycle Workd article posted (or just d/l the one that srsupertrap has linked), read the article a few times, as it has SO much info and data, then you will see the true dyno findings and corrective results. The stock needles are fine with some modifications to the stock shimming configuration. You don't need to spend extra money on differnet needles. The only difference between an excellent running modified GS, and a pi$$ poor running modified GS is DYNO TUNING.

This is the #1 reason I am TOTALLY against adding pods.... slap pods on a stock, or mildly jetted GS, and the bike will run absolutely horrible unless you can put the bike on a dyno... BUT there is a way to really get some impressive hp gains by tweaking jetting, if you know systematically what and where to extrude the hp.

Dude. Rich. Im gonna be nice. Have YOU done it? Have YOU played with needles and shimming and jets and all that crap with pods on your 1100? Apparently not. Ive TRIED shimming the needles. It will still fall on its face at some point in the rev range. WTF is the matter with you people? you're going to ignore people who have been doing this their whole lives? People who squeeze every last ounce of HP out of those motors, tinker, tune, run it, blow it up and then start over again.. Im not saying im one of these people, im far from it. But when they talk, I listen. If you want to play with nylon washers on a Dyno till your hair turns white then have at it. Its still going to have problem spots. Period. When you buy a DJ kit, or a Factory Pro kit, or VH kit or whatever kit you want to buy, you're not paying for the product. You're paying for the research. I'll say again, SOMEDAY you MIGHT get MiC needles to work, only after endless hours of trial and error. And the ONLY ones i think will ever work are VM needles that have more of a taper. But even those, you'll go crazy trying to work all of the bad spots out. Its not going to happen. If it worked as easily as people think, EVERYONE would do it. Everyone's bike would be running around on pod filters and a pipe. Its not.

The article you're typing up is a nice guide, some other info on tuning carbs. Its not the end all, be all article, the Holy Bible of carb tuning. It really erks me when people read an article and suddenly they know more than people who've made a career out of it. I certainly dont. And I dont pretend to. But i DO know what ive done that DOESNT work, and shimming the stock needles is one thing.

 

[Sunburn]

Jet kit will come with adjustable needles, this is key to get it to run right. It's not just about the main jets.


All the air flow changes when you remove the stock air box.


I re-jetted a stock 89 GSXF-750 I put on a yosh pipe and individual air filters. The dyno jet ket i purchased was great. Came with detailed instructions and trouble shooting. That bike was screeming when I was done. But I had them carbs off more times then I can count adjusting the needles mostly.


With out that jet kit and instructions I would have never got it done.

I repeat, same as quote above. Without the dyno jet kit, i would never got this bike to run right with the pods.

The needles had to be adjusted

New main jets

Had to drill out an area and insert a special plastic insert to increase air flow, this was also adjustable as well.

Drill out the mixture caps for access to the air mixture screws.

Detailed instructions had to be followed along with trial and error. Then go over the trouble shooting section over and over again until I got it right. I did not need to be a re-jet carb know it all stud. Just follow instructions with important upgrade parts made by and tested pro's.

Unless your a pro with a ton of spare parts......buy the damn kit and shut up.

Done deal!

 

[TheCafeKid]

I repeat, same as quote above. Without the dyno jet kit, i would never got this bike to run right with the pods.

The needles had to be adjusted

New main jets

Had to drill out an area and insert a special plastic insert to increase air flow, this was also adjustable as well.

Drill out the mixture caps for access to the air mixture screws.

Detailed instructions had to be followed along with trial and error. Then go over the trouble shooting section over and over again until I got it right. I did not need to be a re-jet carb know it all stud. Just follow instructions with important upgrade parts made by and tested pro's.

Unless your a pro with a ton of spare parts......buy the damn kit and shut up.

Done deal!

Interweb high five bro... theres no reason to pull your hair out if the answer is right in front of you.

 

[RJ]

I have an '82 1100E that is essentially stock except for Dyna S ignition, Vance & Hines megaphone, and pods. I had a midrange throttle stumble that I could not get rid of. I installed a Dynojet Stage III kit per the instructions. It now runs like a scalded ape. What else do you need to know? Dynojet has already put in the dyno time so you don't have to. Why re-invent the wheel?

 

[Guest]

Its time to bring this one back to life!!

My bike(850) is getting close to the tuning stage and I've already looked at the DJ Kit on the Dennis Kirk website, its in my checkout and I fully intend to buy it when the time comes cause I already know Im gonna need it. THe bike already had a dead spot smack dab in the middle of the throttle climb. Trying to do all the research now so hopfully I'll have a jump on it.
Yeah, Im doing PODS and a four into one. Is an alarm gonna go off?

Sorry to all you stock lovers out there but the stock airbox is butt UGLY!

 

[49er]

Its time to bring this one back to life!!

My bike(850) is getting close to the tuning stage and I've already looked at the DJ Kit on the Dennis Kirk website, its in my checkout and I fully intend to buy it when the time comes cause I already know Im gonna need it. THe bike already had a dead spot smack dab in the middle of the throttle climb. Trying to do all the research now so hopfully I'll have a jump on it.
Yeah, Im doing PODS and a four into one. Is an alarm gonna go off?

Sorry to all you stock lovers out there but the stock airbox is butt UGLY!

A butt Ugly airbox would make anyone want to fit pods.

Have fun, spend up and if nothing else, you'll help improve the economy.

 

[Guest]

LMAO!
Aint spending too much. Im pretty "thrifty" but when ya need the right part ya just need the right part.

 

[Guest]

Propellers for the win!