Torque spec for 81 GS1100E?

[corpse26]

Hi everyone,
I'm new to the forum. I just finished rebuilding my 81'GS1100E with a Wiseco 1168 kit. When I went to start it for the first time it seems like it wants to fire but doesn't actually catch on. I noticed a small oil puddle after several minutes of trying to start it. I traced a very small oil leak to wear the cylinder head meets the top of the block on the right hand side of the engine. It only leaks when I try to start it. I'm wondering if I torque the cylinder head studs to the proper spec. I was told 24ft lbs was the correct amount. Does anyone know if this is the correct torque for this cylinder head?

Thanks for any and all help you can give me in advance.

 

[Nessism]

No manual?

27 ft-lbs is right for the large nuts holding down the head on an 8 valve 1000 engine. Not sure about 1100E.

 

[Don-lo]

Does this engine have a teardrop o-ring in the base gasket? It may have shifted and gotten pinched. It is possible to replace that o-ring without fully removing the head and cylinders. You would have to remove the carbs, exhaust, cams, spark plugs and head nuts (they all need to come off anyway). Then remove the stud that goes through that o-ring (double-nut it). Then slide the cylinders and head up an inch or 2 (don't let the rings come out) and replace the o-ring. There will be a lot of oil, so you will need to clean the base gasket. You should try to drain the oil out of the head beforehand through the big 17mm nut on the right hand side of the motor (top-right of the clutch cover).

 

[rapidray]

Bad news, the torque is supposed to be 32 ft lbs & once the head gasket leaks it will not stop. You need to replace the head & base gaskets & clean EVERYTHING before reassembly!

 

[corpse26]

Bad news, the torque is supposed to be 32 ft lbs & once the head gasket leaks it will not stop. You need to replace the head & base gaskets & clean EVERYTHING before reassembly!

Agh!, that's what i was afraid of. I have half a mind to go ahead and have the head and block surfaced while I have it apart. If I only had it torqued down to 27ft lbs that would be loss enough for oil to squeeze through the head gasket???


This motor has big orings that go around the bottom of the cylinders and then the base gasket goes beneath them. There are no orings around the engine studs. Just big dowel pins sourounding several of the studs.

 

[Guest]

Before tearing it all down is it coming from under the small bolt on the right side by the by the #4 spark plug? Try getting some thread sealant from Permatex and take out the three small bolts and follow the instructions. I have had these leak after a tear down and was chasing my tail trying to figure out where it was coming from.
Imagine my suprise when I had oil everywhere after all that work. This dryed it up.

 

[corpse26]

Before tearing it all down is it coming from under the small bolt on the right side by the by the #4 spark plug? Try getting some thread sealant from Permatex and take out the three small bolts and follow the instructions. I have had these leak after a tear down and was chasing my tail trying to figure out where it was coming from.
Imagine my suprise when I had oil everywhere after all that work. This dryed it up.

Well, it's not coming directly from that bolt. It's coming from where the cylinder head and cylinders meet. Seeping through the spring steel head gasket itself only when you try to crank the engine.

 

[trippivot]

step torque 15 first go 'round
30 next time
38 final

heavy APE studs and nuts will allow 40~42 ft/lbs


everyone thinks they are a motorcycle mechanic at least once.

how difficult can it be?? jap crap.

 

[corpse26]

step torque 15 first go 'round
30 next time
38 final

heavy APE studs and nuts will allow 40~42 ft/lbs


everyone thinks they are a motorcycle mechanic at least once.

how difficult can it be?? jap crap.

I heard 32ft lbs from another post. Which is it? I'd really hate to over torque these. They are the original OEM studs.

 

[Guest]

I put 30 on mine.
If it is leaking from the head gasket than Ray is right. Getting the head milled should help.
Did you get all the old gasket off? Gouge the surface at all?

 

[corpse26]

I put 30 on mine.
If it is leaking from the head gasket than Ray is right. Gettin the head milled should help.
Did you get all the old gasket off? Gouge the surface at all?

I had to use a light scotch bright on a 90' to remove all of the gasket. A gasket scraper wasn't touching it. I was told that it wouldn't cause much distortion in the head surface but it may have done this. I know the bike was ran extremely lean for quite some time. Had stock jetting in the carbs with pod filters and a v&h exhaust so that may have caused the head to warp some as well.

 

[trippivot]

if you take the head loose out of sequence there is a risk it will possibly warp the head. the numbers are cast into there for a very good reason. ass. and diss. both.

go ahead and stop at 32. corpse
being EXACT is not necessary but caution to the lighter side is wise at first
fiber style has a crush ring (1 time only)

I use thick copper gaskets top and bottom and higher pressure pistons so I may go tighter a bit.

 

[Guest]

If you got it hot and it leaked right away I'd say you have some warpage.

 

[49er]

if you take the head loose out of sequence there is a risk it will possibly warp the head. the numbers are cast into there for a very good reason. ass. and diss. both.

go ahead and stop at 32. corpse
being EXACT is not necessary but caution to the lighter side is wise at first
fiber style has a crush ring (1 time only)

I use thick copper gaskets top and bottom and higher pressure pistons so I may go tighter a bit.

Good advice above.

I had a 3 thou bow in my 850 head but felt it was still on the limit so didn't re-surface. Fitted the Vesrah fibre head gasket with the 10.5-1 pistons and torqued to 30 ft lbs. Clymer states 27 ft lbs. The key though is your proceedure at the 1000 km re-torque. You must loosen each nut half a turn and then re-torque. This avoids false torque indications through thred binding.

IMO, ditch the multi layer steel head gasket for a new fibre one. I have one hanging on the garage wall, that won't see service again. Handy as a visual reference though.

 

[don_gibb6512]

I heard 32ft lbs from another post. Which is it? I'd really hate to over torque these. They are the original OEM studs.

The Suzuki Service manual states:

Cylinder Head Nut tightening torque: 25.5 - 29.0 lb-ft

But if RapidRay says to use 32 lb-ft, there must be a real good reason for it.

 

[corpse26]

The Suzuki Service manual states:

Cylinder Head Nut tightening torque: 25.5 - 29.0 lb-ft

But if RapidRay says to use 32 lb-ft, there must be a real good reason for it.

Dropped my cylinder head off to the machine shop yesterday. He's going to mill it the bare minimum so the compression doesn't get jumped up anymore than it is. I installed the 10.25compression wiseco 1168 pistons so I don't want to raise the temperature much more than it will be. I have an oil cooler on the motor but dont know how much it's going to help really.

I tried using the head gasket that came with the 1168 kit thats a cometic spring steel gasket with a crush ring around the cylinders. I don't know where to get a fiber style gasket to fit an 1168?? Anybody know where to get one of these or if they're even made for the 1168?

 

[Guest]

APE sells head gaskets for the 1166 kit. So does Schnitz racing.

 

[rapidray]

I have used the steel shim, the copper, & the fiber gaskets. I still use steel shim & copper. You couldn't give me FREE fiber gaskets & get me to use them. Cometic has all the head gaskets you could ever need. Ray.

 

[corpse26]

okay....

okay....

Okay, well it's been awhile since I've posted up about this issue because it's been the holidays and I've been waiting for some items from the machine shop. It turns out that the oil leak was caused by both the cylinder head and the cylinders being warped. The cylinder head had to be milled .006'' to get all of the warpage out and the cylinders had to be milled .005''.

To counter the space lost by the milling I added an additional base gasket which measures .020'' thick. My valves clear the pistons and everything seems good. However, the bike doesn't start. I set my valve clearance at .003'' and am using 92octane gas.

Is this valve clearance wrong for this bike? (81'GS1100ex)

Could the gas be to high of an octane?

I wouldn't think I'd need to upgrade the ignition coils since this is only the 10.25:1 comp ratio 1168cc wiseco pistons and the additional clearance from the base gasket would drop the compression a little even more.

Thanks for all of the help guys.

 

[49er]

It's a pity you couldn't get a new .030" base gasket. Your CR would then be closer to 10.5-1. With your present set up, your CR will have dropped below 10-1. The stock CR is 9.5-1.

At .003" valve clearance you are set at the tighter end of the recommended .08 to .013 mm range. The 92 octane gas won't be causing any starting problems unless it's sat for a year or so. Check that you are getting fuel to the carbs and that your choke is working correctly. If these are ok, you may need to re-check the valve timing. Does the engine fire at all? If not, check the spark at the plugs by shorting them against the head while cranking the engine.
Piston to valve clearance has increased by .009" provided the Wiseco head gasket is the same thickness as stock.