Totally dead - need help

[eddypeck]

So last night I killed the GS1000G and had to wait for a relay truck to get me home.

I was doing 80 down the motorway just about to overtake a caravan and then a big backfire lost all power, so moved over to the hard shoulder. Still rolling under my own momentum pulled in the clutch, turned off the ignition and turned it back on. Let out the clutch and was bale to bump start the bike again.

However right down on power, I was able to nurse it along the breakdown lane. It wouldn't do more than 40mph and if I tried to give it any more gas it would just backfire and lose whatever momentum I had. I eased it along for about 6 miles till I got to the services (rest stop).
I pulled into the car park with is still running and got off. I checked over the bike, made sure I had lights, brake lights, flashers, horn so that I was safe as I was considering continuing my journey tentatively as I was only about 8 miles from home.

However I'm not sure what happened next, I may have knocked the kill switch when I checked the headlight and the bike died. At that point it was totally dead, no ignition light, no anything.

I called for breakdown recovery, but had a couple hours to kill till they arrived. I took off the side panels, checked the fuses and looked all around for any obvious problems, loose wire or any signs/smell of burning etc. I had basic tools in the rear storage so was able to lift the tank out the away and check the wires there and the coils, not that I really knew what I was checking for, but I guess if I'd seen a break in a wire at least I'd know.

But nothing obvious. I got trailered home and shoved the bike away in the garage for further investigation. It was last by then, and I've had to take the car to work today so haven't had chance to diagnose anything further. But can anyone point me towards where I should start?

I'm wondering if I've totally killed the battery, it seems strong enough but I don't know the history of it. So I'll hook up another battery and see but I would expect some life not complete shut down.

I also guess I could have killed a coil, or both but again I don't see how that would knock out the ignition light. Again any fault in the start button or kill switch I assume would prevent it from starting but I'd still have the ignition light on.

 

[Brendan W]

Check the battery for charge. Make a note of the voltage and then charge it up, preferably off the bike.
There are a number of scenarios for what you describe but there is little as futile as troubleshooting with a flat battery.
A possible scenario is that the charging has stopped. You were running on battery but eventually one coil stopped working and the unburned fuel ignited in the exhaust. You bump started now on only two cylinders but the bike eventually stopped, kill switch maybe, maybe just not enough left in the battery.
The battery is flat.
See what I did there? Theories out of the blue with no measurements. Don't do that
If it is flat and you get it charged up, do the quick tests in Posplayr's sig and get back with the results.

 

[eddypeck]

Thanks Brendan, that's certainly the direction I'm planning to take and will start by assessing the charge if any in the battery.

If the battery is totally dead then I guess I need to find out if the battery is the problem or the charging system... or both. I'll probably go for a new battery anyway for piece of mind.

 

[Gorminrider]

Maybe the ignitor burned out. Or the sensors at the crank. I wouldn\t expect the bike to die with a bang because of charging...symptoms show up before a BANG but it might kill things if the regulation failed. a dried up battery would be a strong clue in this direction.
Cam chains skip but I can't see you getting going again as you were able to.

Anyways it's bad news and I'm glad YOU'RE ok anyways...that could have turned out worse by the sound of it.

 

[eddypeck]

Yeah glad I wasn't in the outside lane with a large truck between me and the side, or worse had any kind of lock up. I did a top end rebuild last winter and although I probably should have replaced the timing chain what was there was OK and no sign of it skipping.

I feel fairly strongly that it's electrical related, however electrics are my worst area. I don't understand them or know how to diagnose them.

Apart from sticking a multi-meter across the battery I have no idea how to diagnose a burned ignitor (what even is an ignitor?) and a failed sensor would surly account for it not running but wouldn't wipe out all electrics would it? The regulator is that thing with cooling fins under the battery housing isn't it. How would I know if that's failed?

 

[Rich82GS750TZ]

eddypeck, you can do it. I was in the same boat as you end of June this year. Didn't know anything about the elecrtical system of my bike. The people here will help you get through it if you follow steps. You must start with a new, charged, or known good battery. Then do the quick test in the link below. You will refer to this often. If you don't understand something, ask a question here. Don't be shy. You won't be laughed off the forum for not knowing how to read a meter or know what a ignitor is or does. Listen to the advise of posplayr. I'm sure he'll chime in here once you post your first quick test numbers.
https://www.thegsresources.com/_for...arging-System-QUICK-TEST&highlight=quick+test

 

[eddypeck]

Thanks, so far in my first year of ownership I've already had many first times.

1st top and rebuild with new head and base gaskets after an oil leak, and 1st valve clearance check.
1st fork rebuild with new springs and fork seals, got one weeping a bit so I'll be getting to enjoy that job for a 2nd time soon.
And
1st time doing a rewiring for a faulty indicator switch, I have bypassed the self cancelling control box - I am fairly sure what I've done isn't related to this fault but you never know I might find out I made an epic mistake.

Thanks for this link, I'll work through it .... obviously at this stage I won't be able to do the draw checks with the motor running, but if I do mange to get it started of a donor battery or whatever I'll have things to look for.

 

[Rich82GS750TZ]

Then you're ahead of me in some things. I took care of the charging system. This winter I intend to do a bunch of those other things for the first time. Stuck or broken exhaust header bolts, base, head, and valve cover gaskets, valve adjustment, fork seals. There's never a shortage of things that need to be addressed on these old bikes. Good Luck.

 

[eddypeck]

haha, just reminded me of a few other firsts... 1st time using helicoil to redo exhaust bolt threads in the head, 1st time welding stainless to patch the muffler! at 44 years old I thought I'd finished all my learning. Apparently not!

 

[Steve]

... I have no idea how to diagnose a burned ignitor (what even is an ignitor?) ...

You mentioned you know virtually nothing about electrics. Do you have at least a basic concept of how the ignition system works with points and coils? :-k

In a nutshell, current flows from the battery, through the coils, through the points to ground. The flowing current sets up a magnetic field in the iron core of the coil. When the points open, current stops flowing and the magnetic field collapses. When the field collapses, a secondary current is amplified in the secondary windings of the coil to create the thousands of volts that go to the spark plugs. When the points close, the magnetic field is created and the process is repeated.

Your "ignitor" is simply a box of transistors that replaces the points. That's all. Nothing fancy. It does not really 'ignite' anything, it just switches the current that goes through the coils. It is often called a "CDI", but that is very incorrect. Common, but wrong.

.

 

[Rich82GS750TZ]

Thanks, Steve. Now my head hurts.

 

[Redman]

Eddy,

Good that you made it to side of road.

One thing I can definitely say: The Kill switch only effects the ignition (coils, igniter) and the starter solenoid. Will have no effect on the headlight nor the signal circuits.

Do I understand properly that you are describing two situations? 1) Sometimes is completely dead, no power anywhere, no lights no anything? And 2) other times you do have power but barley runs?
I understand that both occurred, but which is it now?
Which is it that we are troubleshooting at the present?
(The post title is "totally dead", but lets verify that point.)

Other question, Do you have any sort of volt meter (multi meter)... or at least a test lamp probe....?
(Other than just changing the main fuse, most any troubleshooting will require some sort of power tester.)

Lot of folks here willing to help.
(And most of them do know what they are talking about.)

 

[eddypeck]

First chance I’ve had to take a look.

Yes i I have a multi-meter. Battery is at 12.8v so not a charging issue I assume. Battery was obviously getting charge right up to the failure. I was expecting it to be zero.

the first issue was a loss of power/performance but was still running. But shortly after pulling over and getting off with the engine still running. The bike cut out. At that point all life was lost, no electrics at all, no ignition light of anything - hence totally dead.

what I’m not sure of is if I knocked the kill switch when it stopped or if whatever failure was happening reached the next level and took out something else.

I know what the kill switch does under normal circumstances so I know it wouldn’t directly kill off everything else. But wasn’t sure what circuit it might effect if it had tripped out.

I’ll get the battery out and on a trickle charger for further diagnostics, hopefully I’ll get chance to did deeper this coming week.

 

[eddypeck]

So, although the visible check on the fuses seemed all was ok this furs had failed in unexpected manner.




So i do I have my electrics back, now on to the initial problem... why did I lose power, which I suspect was the failure of a coil leaving me running on two cylinders.

ill test that theory when I have a bit more time by looking for a spark.

 

[Brendan W]

So, although the visible check on the fuses seemed all was ok this furs had failed in unexpected manner.

View attachment 56374


So i do I have my electrics back, now on to the initial problem... why did I lose power, which I suspect was the failure of a coil leaving me running on two cylinders.

ill test that theory when I have a bit more time by looking for a spark.

All too common failure with glass fuses these days. Maybe they don't make them like they used to. It's common to find new fuses with the end caps loose and very poor soldering. Which fuse was that?
Coils are fairly tough, failure is rare. Wiring to the coils would be more promising place to start, particularly the plugs under the tank.They can look ok but hide a whole mess of corrosion.
I don't like co-incidences and would be keeping an eye out for a common cause here.

 

[earlfor]

So, although the visible check on the fuses seemed all was ok this furs had failed in unexpected manner.

View attachment 56374


So i do I have my electrics back, now on to the initial problem... why did I lose power, which I suspect was the failure of a coil leaving me running on two cylinders.

ill test that theory when I have a bit more time by looking for a spark.

The fuse that was faulty was likely the one the ignition circuit was on.

 

[Redman]

So, although the visible check on the fuses seemed all was ok this furs had failed in unexpected manner.

..............k.

Ah, so the fuse failed just because the fuse failed (not due to excessive high current).

If that is/was the main fuse (15 A); that would explain the "lost all power" after the bike shut off.

If that was the Ignition fuse (10 A); that would explain why the engine quit.

Now: describe better the situation now that have replaced the fuse.

Good that you have a volt meter.

.

 

[eddypeck]

Yes it was the 15amp main fuse. With this replaced I have power, checked sparks at all 4 plugs and all seem fine. Started bike and seemed ok. Went for a short ride - not too far, didn’t want to get stuck far from home. Bike seemed to be all ok, had power as normal.

Could the breakdown of this fues cause the symptoms described? I guess it broke but electricity was still able to arc across as the bike was already running, although power was interrupted and not able to maintain a strong spark. When I stopped it was no longer to sustain flow and I lost everything... sound feesible or not?

My biggest issue is reliability, I like to use the bike for work which is 30 miles away if I can’t trust the bike to get me there and back then there’s no point having it. I’m happy to carry more spare fuses and if this happened again I’d know the fix. but I’m worried there’s going to be a grater under lying issue. Yes it’s nearly 40 years old but know plenty on here use their bikes daily.

 

[roeme]

Yes it was the 15amp main fuse. With this replaced I have power, checked sparks at all 4 plugs and all seem fine. Started bike and seemed ok. Went for a short ride - not too far, didn’t want to get stuck far from home. Bike seemed to be all ok, had power as normal.

Could the breakdown of this fues cause the symptoms described? I guess it broke but electricity was still able to arc across as the bike was already running, although power was interrupted and not able to maintain a strong spark. When I stopped it was no longer to sustain flow and I lost everything... sound feesible or not?

My biggest issue is reliability, I like to use the bike for work which is 30 miles away if I can’t trust the bike to get me there and back then there’s no point having it. I’m happy to carry more spare fuses and if this happened again I’d know the fix. but I’m worried there’s going to be a grater under lying issue. Yes it’s nearly 40 years old but know plenty on here use their bikes daily.

A) Don't skimp on maintenance, then the bike will carry you for a long time and many miles.
B) If you have to rely so much on a bike, have a back-up bike and alternate between the two.

The symptoms described are indeed possible with a fuse that is breaking down and only making contact every other combustion cycle.

Also, carry an emergency clutch cable.

On my 550s, the only thing I've had fail due to age were clutch cables, bulbs, and R/R's. In terms of (recurring) maintenance, I've only replaced oil, cleaned carbs and adjusted valves, but I've been a bad boy with all the other stuff, and on top of that I've had spills with both bikes. Still, they always carried me from A to B.

Having more than one running bike gives one more flexibility when it comes to addressing issues.

 

[earlfor]

Yes it was the 15amp main fuse. With this replaced I have power, checked sparks at all 4 plugs and all seem fine. Started bike and seemed ok. Went for a short ride - not too far, didn’t want to get stuck far from home. Bike seemed to be all ok, had power as normal.

Could the breakdown of this fues cause the symptoms described? I guess it broke but electricity was still able to arc across as the bike was already running, although power was interrupted and not able to maintain a strong spark. When I stopped it was no longer to sustain flow and I lost everything... sound feesible or not?

My biggest issue is reliability, I like to use the bike for work which is 30 miles away if I can’t trust the bike to get me there and back then there’s no point having it. I’m happy to carry more spare fuses and if this happened again I’d know the fix. but I’m worried there’s going to be a grater under lying issue. Yes it’s nearly 40 years old but know plenty on here use their bikes daily.

Most likely that fuse had been in there forever and vibration eventually cracked the glass on it. After that, failure was a certainty. I would carry some spare 20 amp fuses just in case. A spare clutch cable is a good thing to have also.