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Transmission Problem? Bandit 1200 motor

  • Thread starter Thread starter yoshisakan
  • Start date Start date
Y

yoshisakan

Guest
Hey all, i'm swapping a bandit motor in my gs1100 chassis. I noticed the other day that the transmission won't stay in neutral. I put it in neutral then roll it about a foot then i hear a click in what sounds like the clutch cover and it goes into gear. I haven't rode the bike yet and haven't had it running, so would it be possible that the clutch plates are sticking or something? I'm fairly sure its in neutral when it's doing this, but the neutral light isn't lit but that may be from my custom wiring not being 100%.
 
yoshisakan said:
Hey all, i'm swapping a bandit motor in my gs1100 chassis. I noticed the other day that the transmission won't stay in neutral. I put it in neutral then roll it about a foot then i hear a click in what sounds like the clutch cover and it goes into gear. I haven't rode the bike yet and haven't had it running, so would it be possible that the clutch plates are sticking or something? I'm fairly sure its in neutral when it's doing this, but the neutral light isn't lit but that may be from my custom wiring not being 100%.
Click to expand...

Yes very possible
 
The motor has been sitting for a few years. Dumb me, i just installed a lock up and didnt take the clutch plates out. At least I have air impact and the socket now.
 
did you install one of those diaphragm lock ups in the bandit engine or did you do the GSXR conversion on the clutch?
 
blowerbike said:
did you install one of those diaphragm lock ups in the bandit engine or did you do the GSXR conversion on the clutch?
Click to expand...

I am guessing he used the diaphragm lock up since he did one take the clutch apart. With the GSXR conversion you have to change the inner hub and pressure plate
 
I took apart the clutch plates last night, made sure they were covered in oil. I have neutral again. They were a bit sticky.

I am using the MTC diaphram lockup. I'm anxious to see how it works. To be honest, i don't see how it can really apply that much force on the clutch. I am installing this thing correctly, right? I noticed the two diaphgram springs and i can't believe they're applying that much force either. Any idea what the coil springs are for that are between the flywheel gears? There is next to zero documentation on this setup and very few threads in the internet.
http://imgur.com/KMwR9Cm.jpg
http://imgur.com/x7sk9NB
 
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yoshisakan said:
I took apart the clutch plates last night, made sure they were covered in oil. I have neutral again. They were a bit sticky.
Click to expand...

Can someone explain to me how sticky clutch plates will prevent finding neutral and/or cause the transmission to drop into gear from neutral? The clutch should have nothing to do with the operation of the transmission when you are sitting in the garage with the bike not running.


Mark
 
I think the sticky plates were not allowing the clutch to disengage properly. That's my guess anyway.
 
Rocking the bike back and forth make sure you can go thru all 5 gears it won't be as smooth as when the bike is running but you should be able to go thru all the gears if you can do this your tranny is probably good.

the coil springs are for setting up the stall speed or when the lock up starts working and can be purchased in different strengths. the arm weights are for how hard you want it to lock up less weight will give you a little slip at the lower rpm more weight will lock it up sooner. From your pics I would add 2 more grams of weight to each arm and use light springs for street use. How much No2 are you going to spray? And is the head ported
Can I ask where you got the motor, lock up, and No2 setup. Did it come from a guy named Marc from Canada? It looks very familiar.
 
Hm, I didn't change out the coil springs, they are stock. I am not looking to race the bike, just have a little fun occasionally on the highway when I see the likes of a new sport bike. I am running a 100 shot and no the head is not ported. I pieced everything together on my own, the motor came from a wrecked bike a couple years back and has been in my garage since. I found it on ebay for $650 from a shop actually. Do you think the clutch as is will hold the power? The "weights" are just the washers on each arm, right? How many would you add to each? I don't have a digital scale. I'll also add that I'm not planning to use the spray below 40mph. I don't think there's any chance of my tire holding the power at speeds less than that.
 
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yoshisakan said:
I think the sticky plates were not allowing the clutch to disengage properly. That's my guess anyway.
Click to expand...

With the bike not running you don't need to disengage the clutch at all to hit neutral, just rock the bike a bit if the gearshift won't move on its own.


Mark
 
I've been rocking transmissions for 20 years lol. I don't know what else to say other than it wouldn't stay in neutral. It would go in for a few feet, click, then shift into 1st or 2nd. It seems to be working properly now.
 
yoshisakan said:
I've been rocking transmissions for 20 years lol. I don't know what else to say other than it wouldn't stay in neutral. It would go in for a few feet, click, then shift into 1st or 2nd. It seems to be working properly now.
Click to expand...

Bizarre. I wasn't being an ass, I was seriously wondering exactly how sticky plates were causing your transmission to drop into gear. Hopefully it stays working correctly for you.


Mark
 
The Bandit motor did not come with coil springs they came with a diaphragm spring. If you have a coil spring clutch then someone already did the clutch conversion. Or are saying the coil springs are on the lock up because the 2 stage lock has coil springs that can be changed to change when the lock up starts working.
I can tell you this if you spray 100 hp to a stock rod Bandit motor then your rods will break. You need to at the very least put a set of 93 to 98 water cooled GSXR 1100 rods. Or just spray 60 hp and be happy. The stock Bandit rods will only hold about 180 hp max and the stock will make 125hp with a properly jetted carbs and a good exhaust.

I am using 1st gen Busa rods in my 1340cc Bandit because the Busa rods will hold 300 hp safely the GSXR1100 water cooled rods will hold 225 hp
 
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That is a stock Bandit clutch with an MTC lockup in your picture which is what I have in my Bandit presently. It can hold the power that you are trying to get if the plates are not worn out.

I would suggest dropping the nitrous 'shot' down to 40 or less to start off with until you have some experience with it. Dumping a 100 'shot' in for your first experience with nitrous might cause problems. Make sure that you DO NOT engage the nitrous unless at full throttle and over 6000 rpm. Engaging at low rpm/not WFO can blow up the engine, yes I know someone who did just that. If you don't yet have a full-throttle switch inline with your button, I strongly suggest installing one.

As far as the Bandit rods, they can handle well into the 200hp zone if you don't use really heavy pistons or really high rpm.
Of course this assumes not making the mistakes mentioned above (wrongly engaging the nitrous system).
 
jimb12 said:
As far as the Bandit rods, they can handle well into the 200hp zone if you don't use really heavy pistons or really high rpm.
Of course this assumes not making the mistakes mentioned above (wrongly engaging the nitrous system).
Click to expand...

I strongly disagree with you on this. Your playing with a time bomb. The bolt are weak on the Bandit rods. Also I would recommend a progressive nitrous controller. I always play on the safe side

Jim,
What kinda of time are you running with your set up and what is your chassis set up? I am sure the op would like to know. I would like to see a pic of your bike. I believe I have seen your name at Maxium-Suzuki

Mark,
looking at your pic of you bike I would change the position of your bottle to angle the bottle upwards slightly and check the bottle to make sure which way the tube is angled and then mark the bottle so the tube is facing down if there is no tube then the bottle needs to be mounted upside down. Also check how the nozzles are pointed the should be pointed straight done the intake track. If you need any help you can call me 941-391-1410 I just lying around here in the hospital STILL.

J.D.
 
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stetracer said:
I strongly disagree with you on this. Your playing with a time bomb. The bolt are weak on the Bandit rods. Also I would recommend a progressive nitrous controller.

Jim in what kinda of time are you running with your set up and what is your chassis set up? I am sure the op would like to know. I would like to see a pic of your bike. I believe I have seen your name at Maxium-Suzuki
Click to expand...

If I remember correctly, a couple of years back, Dale Walker (Holeshot) put together a max effort street Bandit with a primarily stock engine and came up with about 160 hp as a reliable daily runner.
 
JD,
Your arbitrary 180hp limit is not the correct way to analyze the rod situation in my opinion. You are ignoring big factors on rod stress, namely piston weight and rpm. Since the OP has stock pistons and stock B12 cams, he did not add piston weight and he should not be running really high rpm. I have run the B12 over 200rwhp (with the help of a nitrous system) on the stock oiler rods and it was a 'worse case' than for the OP because it had aftermarket pistons and revved to 11000. I also know someone who ran much more hp in an oil-cooled than I did, using stock rods and stock pistons. Do I feel more confident in what the motor could take, now that it has Carillo H-Beam rods? Of course. We'll disagree on stock G1 Busa rods too because my opinion is, if you go through the trouble to pull an oil-cooled motor apart to change the rods for a performance build, then use either Carillo, Crower, or Wossner rods.
 
earlfor said:
If I remember correctly, a couple of years back, Dale Walker (Holeshot) put together a max effort street Bandit with a primarily stock engine and came up with about 160 hp as a reliable daily runner.
Click to expand...

"primarily stock"..opinions vary and dale is in the business to sell parts/make a living.
when i bought my bandit new in early 97 there was near nothing available so i worked with what i had and on a low budget.
IMO much over 130hp requires the head being removed and then i'd have to throw "stock" anything type of phrase out the window.:D
 
jimb12 said:
JD,
Your arbitrary 180hp limit is not the correct way to analyze the rod situation in my opinion. You are ignoring big factors on rod stress, namely piston weight and rpm. Since the OP has stock pistons and stock B12 cams, he did not add piston weight and he should not be running really high rpm. I have run the B12 over 200rwhp (with the help of a nitrous system) on the stock oiler rods and it was a 'worse case' than for the OP because it had aftermarket pistons and revved to 11000. I also know someone who ran much more hp in an oil-cooled than I did, using stock rods and stock pistons. Do I feel more confident in what the motor could take, now that it has Carillo H-Beam rods? Of course. We'll disagree on stock G1 Busa rods too because my opinion is, if you go through the trouble to pull an oil-cooled motor apart to change the rods for a performance build, then use either Carillo, Crower, or Wossner rods.
Click to expand...

Stress on the rod will increse with the addition of added compression and adding No2 will increse the stress on the rods
The use of the water cooled GSXR 1100 rods which can be had for $100 a set is a well known up grade to the Bandit rod with out having to do any other changes or spend $700 to $900 for rods. The use of Busa rods is something a little different a lot more involved. The reason I am using Busa rods in my build 1340cc is because it is over kill enough for me and you can find them new or with no miles for $100 for a set if you are around the drag strip enough and buddy up to the Busa guys they are super strong for stock rods. I have no problem with the after market rods there great if you have the money to buy them but are over kill for 200 hp. God knows I believe in over kill but not to that extreme. I don't feel going into the bottom is any trouble just a little extra work
 
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