Turns over but won't start (I USED SEARCH)

[gs550marc]

Hey guys,

This is my first time posting on the forums. I have been searching through the forums before asking because I know you guys find it annoying to see the same questions, but I couldn't find a good enough post that covered my issues which I assumed would be more common.

I have a 1980 Suzuki GS550L. I bought it in June with 18,000 miles. I had the carbs fully redone (new internal parts), cleaned and all the works. I had a full service done (all fluids, etc).

I rode it for most of July and by August I started getting issues with starting it. I also wanted to replace a man made petcock that the previous owner installed. I am waiting for the new one to arrive and i'm thinking the problem may lie there. The bike turns over strong, but it just won't fire up. Spark plugs are new and I tested compression, which was better than expected for it age. All the cylinders run about 3-4 degrees off from each other, so in all, she has a good motor. I just don't understand why it isn't firing up.

Another issue: When I roll the bike in neutral back and forth from its spot in garage to lift, there is a ticking noise that goes with the speed of the wheel. Is this the chain? sprockets?

I would greatly appreciate any help. I belong to a garage that has more tools than i've ever seen before and 3 lifts, so doing work to it is no problem. Along with elders who know what they're doing. I'm still learning a great deal.

Also, battery is brand new and reads 12v.

-Marc

 

[gs550marc]

BTW, here she is:

1980 Suzuki GS550L

 

[FiremanBob]

Marc, thanks for making the effort to search first. That gets you points from me for sure. Have you looked in the articles on BassCliff's website? http://members.dslextreme.com/users/bikecliff/

Or in his mega-welcome? http://members.dslextreme.com/users/bikecliff/images/GSR_Greeting.html

Where in the world are you? It's possible that a member might live around the corner and be able to look at the bike in a few minutes.

If it turns over well and has compression, that leaves spark and fuel. Have you checked for spark by removing a plug, holding it against the head and hitting the start button? If the spark is good, it could be the petcock. I'm sure another member with direct experience of your problem will be along shortly.

 

[Dodik]

i know most people will flame me for this but try a squirt of starting fluid if it starts its fuel related. just dont overdo it with ether

 

[Souske]

Don't bother using starting fluid, use gas on a rag instead!

is there fuel in the float bowls?

 

[tom203]

Don't bother using starting fluid, use gas on a rag instead!

is there fuel in the float bowls?

Oh no, sounds like you're halfway ready with Molotov cocktail! I think this bike deserves more, especially since lots of maintenance (hopefully competent) has been done.
Mr. gs550marc,,, does fuel flow past your "man made petcock" if you pull fuel hose off petcock? Was hard starting the only issue that developed in August?

 

[JEEPRUSTY]

i know most people will flame me for this but try a squirt of starting fluid if it starts its fuel related. just dont overdo it with ether

HAHHA flame you.......that is funny.
Ether has its place but I once had a nasty backfire that made me dance.

So many people lose so much for want of a simple fire extinguisher.

 

[gs550marc]

Hey guys,

Thanks for all the quick replies.

I'm located in Brooklyn, NY and I will give those articles a read on the train tomorrow morning.

FiremanBob: I have not checked for spark which I will do tomorrow. I am almost certain that the fuel is running through down into the carbs.

Tom203: The hose the previous owner used (I will take a picture of the DIY petcock tomorrow) is a dark green and semi-transparent so It looks as if there is fuel there, again I'm not positive. I have removed the tank itself before and cleaned out the old petcock system that is on there so I know there is no fuel blockage from the tank to the petcock. Also, the hard starts occured more frequently after I inspected the old petcock. It used to start at the first push of the button.

Souske & Dodik: I don't know how to check the float bowls and I will ask someone at the garage to possibly "squirt" some fluid/gas into the carbs if I can't figure it out.

I do hope it is the petcock, since the new one should arrive in the next few days. I was going to change it either way to get rid of that awful looking contraption the guy made.

I also haven't had it running for a while trying to get the sprocket cover off which had two stripped bolts to replace a clutch cable that I found out was hanging by a thread. I destroyed a piece of that cover to get the bolts off (needed extractors). But after throwing it into the media blaster, one can finally see the gear shift pattern.

 

[gs550marc]

Pictures and Video

Pictures and Video

So I installed the new petcock and nothing! No start. I did get a soft soft muffled sound at the first touch of the start button which I don't recall being there before.

Spark is good, I did not spray into the carbs because I don't know how to do that and no one else was around at the garage who I'd trust with my bike.

So here are some pictures and a youtube link to a video that will show you what happens when I try to start the bike. Although I'm sure you all already know what happens.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L3-CyHOgBJA

Here you can see the "man-made" petcock switch bolted to the side of the closest carb...

Better shot:

Old Petcock:

New Petcock (I hope I attached the tubes correctly)!

Tank/seatless:

Other pictures from my garage, including a CB175 and a Triumph dirtbike:

Any more tips would be greatly appreciated!

 

[cableguy]

It was running fine then all of a sudden it wouldn't start?

Check for

FUEL -- If you just replaced the petcock with a new one, great. Check your vent tubes for clogs and kinks. Set the petcock on "prime" and try to start it. Prime just freeflows gas to the carbs.

AIR -- Is it getting enough? Dirty filter?

SPARK -- Pull a plug and ground it on something then crank the motor briefly. Do you see your little blue friend? Bad coils or ignitor?

AFTER you've checked those, you're ready for the next layer depending on the results. Try to troubleshoot methodically and focus on one thing at a time, and although I'm not close to being a GS authority, I know that you always start simple, and work from there.

It seems odd that it won't even fire a little bit after running OK. My guess is electrical.

 

[tom203]

That's quite a petcock assembly (the old one) ! As others have stated make sure your new petcock flows gas-use prime spot, or apply vacuum to petcock vac nipple ( i.e., suck on it). Once you know you have gas in carbs, you can move on to other troubleshooting. Nice garage setup!

 

[ScrumDown]

I have a 79 GS550L. When i was given it, it would not start. I ahd to mess with the points and then it gave me spark & finally it kicked over. That said ...
Does yours have a kick start? If so, will it stat that way?

Can you get it started by pushing it and popping the clutch?

 

[Big T]

Marc

The 1980 petcock is a weird experiment that didn't work, so it's a one year only part

I think you need to find the Prime position on it and see if that fills your carbs with gas

You can find out if there's gas in the carbs by removing the plug on the float bowl [ gas should come out.

If it ran fine, then deteriorated, then stopped, I'd suspect plugged carbs

See the tutorial on Cliffs page and go from there

Also, check the gas tank it self for rust or crud - but I don't see any evidence on your old petcock

 

[gs550marc]

Marc

The 1980 petcock is a weird experiment that didn't work, so it's a one year only part

I think you need to find the Prime position on it and see if that fills your carbs with gas

You can find out if there's gas in the carbs by removing the plug on the float bowl [ gas should come out.

If it ran fine, then deteriorated, then stopped, I'd suspect plugged carbs

See the tutorial on Cliffs page and go from there

Also, check the gas tank it self for rust or crud - but I don't see any evidence on your old petcock

You're definitely right about the petcock being a failed experiment. It doesn't even have a level to turn it to prime. I did try to get it to the prime position by turning the dial with a flathead, but I did not see any gas flow down either. I will try checking the float bowls on Saturday. The tank is fine on the inside, it must be with the carbs which is a pain because I spent a pretty penny getting them cleaned/redone/synced/etc...

Cableguy: New air filter, spark is fine and like mentioned above I tried the prime setting which is odd to not see/feel the gas flow down...


Tom203: Wasn't expecting I'd have to get that close to my motorcycle And thanks about the garage, these guys are great here. I'll try and post more pictures up (early ducatis, bmws, triumphs, bsa, nortons). I may have the only GS at the garage believe it or not!

ScrumDown: No kickstart, I wish! I was going to try it down the main strip of the garage but if you saw the bikes in this garage, you'd think twice too! If all else fails, I will get her out on the street and try that this weekend. I think she just needs to be started that one time, for the fuel to go through from tank to engine which is what makes this all so frustrating.


I know less about electrical, so I hope it doesn't have to do with it. I will have some seasoned-pro mechanics at the garage this weekend so hopefully all your contributions and their hands-on help will get her up and running.

Thanks again.

 

[gs550marc]

It was running fine then all of a sudden it wouldn't start?

Check for

FUEL -- If you just replaced the petcock with a new one, great. Check your vent tubes for clogs and kinks. Set the petcock on "prime" and try to start it. Prime just freeflows gas to the carbs.

AIR -- Is it getting enough? Dirty filter?

SPARK -- Pull a plug and ground it on something then crank the motor briefly. Do you see your little blue friend? Bad coils or ignitor?

AFTER you've checked those, you're ready for the next layer depending on the results. Try to troubleshoot methodically and focus on one thing at a time, and although I'm not close to being a GS authority, I know that you always start simple, and work from there.

It seems odd that it won't even fire a little bit after running OK. My guess is electrical.

I don't think I have those vent tubes. If those are the two tubes that run over the carbs, then I definitely never had them even when she was running great in July. I saw that too in the service manual. I never had a crankcase breather valve until I saw pictures/videos of other gs550 closeups.

Thanks!

 

[gs550marc]

No spark

No spark

You were all correct about no Spark.

I tried it again yesterday and got NOTHING.

The first time I checked after posting this thread, I tried and did see spark, but by the way I described it, others told me that was very weak.

So where to I go from here?

Bietau85 was nice enough to help me out a bit, and I did check the grounds and connections by the ignitor under the air box, but everything seemed fine (with multimeter).

Again, I am lost... but I atleast have a reason.

And fuel is definitely getting to the carbs as I pulled the fuel line from petcock to carbs and I made a mess in the garage.

I also tried spraying starter in airbox to start it up, and nothing.

 

[BassCliff]

Greetings and Salutations!!

Greetings and Salutations!!

Hi Mr. gs550marc,

Follow the maintenance lists in your "mega-welcome". They'll get you started. You have a 30 year old motorcycle that needs 20 years worth of maintenance. Don't take shortcuts or skip any steps or you will be frustrated.

Let me dump a TON of information on you and share some GS lovin'.

I just stopped by to welcome you to the forum in my own, special way.

If there's anything you'd like to know about the Suzuki GS model bikes, and most others actually, you've come to the right place. There's a lot of knowledge and experience here in the community. Come on in and let me say "HOoooowwwDY!"....

Here is your very own magical, mystical, mythical, mind-expanding "mega-welcome". Please take notice of the "Top 10 Common Issues", "Top 15 Tips For GS Happiness", the Carb Cleanup Series, and the Stator Papers. All of these tasks must be addressed in order to have a safe, reliable machine. This is what NOT to do: Top 10 Newbie Mistakes. Now let me roll out the welcome mat for you...

Please click here for your mega-welcome, chock full of tips, suggestions, links to vendors, and other information. Then feel free to visit my little BikeCliff website where I've been collecting the wisdom of this generous community. Don't forget, we like pictures! Not you, your bike!

Thanks for joining us. Keep us informed. I will put you on my prayer list.

Thank you for your indulgence,

BassCliff

 

[tom203]

Mr.gs550marc: you said you had a new battery- but is it being charged and keeping the system voltage above 12.5 volts? Since it was running ok and then things went downhill, check connections/fuses to find out why you have weak/no spark now. Scoop a readable wiring diagram off Basscliff's while you're looking for troubleshooting tips.

 

[gs550marc]

Tom, the battery is keeping a great charge.

It doesn't seem to be the elcetrical in this case. Apparantly some residue is going from then tank to carbs and clogging it up. I have take the carbs off and I will clean them tomorrow.

I think this means new tank! Or treat the one I have? This could be a good excuse to get a bit of a cafe style going with a new seat which I am planning to build soon.

 

[gs550marc]

Back to where I started...

Back to where I started...

So I took out the carbs, air blasted all the little pieces, put it back in... air blasted the (brand new) petcock, made sure fuel was going from tank to carb (by means of making a mess on the floor) and the bike still won't start. I am getting spark and the charge is very strong. A mechanic friend thinks that little rust particles are clogging up the fuel on the way to the carb or possibly in the carb which is why I cleaned them, but there was no difference.

I have my evaporust to clean my tank out tonight (I was planning to do this) but I don't see how this will get my bike to start.

If someone would like me to take a video of something specific on my motorcycle to see if they can diagnose the problem, please let me know and I'd be glad to. I will try to take a general video going through most of the bike which lasts longer than that 10 second video I posted earlier.

Thanks guys, this is pretty frustrating for me as that nice days are going to start to dwindle soon up here in NY, so I appreciate that you all haven't written me off yet!