Underbucket valve keepers

[kochic]

HI,

I have a small problem. I've been collecting parts to modify my GS1000.
I bought 2 sets of underbucket shims, one set ended up being a Kawasaki set and the other is intended for a GS 2 valve.
I have 3 different retainer models, 2 in titanium(i think) and 1 in steel(kawasaki).

My problem is finding keepers for the retainers. With either stock valves or over-size valves when using stock keepers the stem valve comes out too far so i can't put the shims in their place(they don't stay in place).

Do I need to grind the valve stem or buy a specific keeper set?

any help or suggestion will be appreciated...if anyone has a spec sheet or even a picture it would be of great help.

Below are pics of the retainers I have.

thank you
Marc

 

[first timer]

i would contact APE, they sell shim under buckets, ti retainers and keepers. they should be able to piece together the rest of the missing pieces you need as well as recut your valve stems if need be to match keepers. I would try to use the TI stuff since you have it.

 

[TeamDar]

You need to use Kawasaki KZ1000 keepers. That is what most shim under retainers are designed for. Do not use KZ900 keepers as they are made for square groove valves. Jay at APE can help you. Dar

 

[kochic]

Thank you guys
I seen a APE kz1000 keepers set on ebay.The ridge in the keeper look centered, if they fit this should move the stem down.
if this dosent work i will send Jay a PM, i need HD springs too.
Marc

 

[first timer]

just call APE most of the time Jay's inbox is maxed out

 

[Guest]

We have always used Kawasaki retainers and keepers when doing shim on bottom on GS motors. Don't know what the retainers you hqave are.

Jay

 

[TeamDar]

Thank you guys
I seen a APE kz1000 keepers set on ebay.The ridge in the keeper look centered, if they fit this should move the stem down.
if this dosent work i will send Jay a PM, i need HD springs too.
Marc

If you buy HD springs, make sure that they are for the 8 valve Suzuki. Kawasaki HD springs will work but you must use the Kawasaki spring bases. Suzuki bases are stepped and Kawasaki bases are flat. If you use the Kawasaki spring on the Suzuki base you will sack out the inner spring. Your best bet is to use all Kawasaki spec components because they are readily available. What cam lift are you planning on using? Dar

 

[kochic]

We have always used Kawasaki retainers and keepers when doing shim on bottom on GS motors. Don't know what the retainers you hqave are.

Jay

Thank you,
I dont know the manufacturer of these retainers.I bought them used..
They are really light.
By Kawasaki retainer do you mean KZ650 or aftermarket stuff?

Thanks again,
Marc

 

[kochic]

If you buy HD springs, make sure that they are for the 8 valve Suzuki. Kawasaki HD springs will work but you must use the Kawasaki spring bases. Suzuki bases are stepped and Kawasaki bases are flat. If you use the Kawasaki spring on the Suzuki base you will sack out the inner spring. Your best bet is to use all Kawasaki spec components because they are readily available. What cam lift are you planning on using? Dar

Hi Dar, thanks for the informations.
The cams i will use is Camotion S4 + S7, around .425--.427 of lift.
The kawi stuff seem more available and cheaper too.
Marc

 

[TeamDar]

Make sure that you check all clearances, especially if you are using stock valve guides. At full lift the keepers/retainers can smash into the seals and even the guides. You can shorten the keepers if they hang out of the bottom of the retainer to gain clearance. Dar

 

[kochic]

I'm not using stock guides.I will keep at least .050'' clearance between the retainer and the stem seal at full lift.I will order Kawi keepers and check the clearance then.I have a built head with new guides + seats + 40/33 valves
.I will check that too because i think that head was built to run with a small base circle cam.If i can obtain valve clearance with the cams i have do i need to change the head or cams?
i have a set that may fit direct in that head, but the lift is .480''.
Hahhhh the joy of collecting various parts
Marc

 

[Guest]

Thank you,
I
By Kawasaki retainer do you mean KZ650 or aftermarket stuff?

Thanks again,
Marc

We make the shim on bottom titanium retainers for the Kawasaki 1000.

http://kzzone.com/cams.html

 

[kochic]

Hi,
i just received a set of APE kz1000 valve keepers.It fith nicely on the kawasaki retainer i have but not on the titaniun one.
If i shorten or grind the top portion of stock keepers i'm able to put the shim in the hole.
Anyone had ever tried this?
This engine will be used mostly on street, it is safer to run the stock kz650-1000 stuff + HD springs???
Thank you,
Marc

 

[BadBillyB]

Hey Kochic......Been there done that....First things first. Take one valve and hold it on the seat with your finger. Place a dab of grease on top of the valve stem. Now put a shim on the grease (2.00 is good) and install the lifter bucket. Now put the cam in place with the lobe facing away and see how much clearance you have. Find out what size shim is needed to obtain the correct clearance.
To test keeper to retainer fit, I always take one valve (in your hand) and drop the retainer over the stem, put keepers in place and pull up hard on the retainer. It should wedge firmly into place on the valve. If it does not do this, the taper is wrong. Now put the shim size you found above^^ into the retainer and test for fit. It must sit on the valve stem only and stick up slightly above the top of the retainer.
Post results and I will try to help.........Billy

 

[Guest]

Hi,

This engine will be used mostly on street, it is safer to run the stock kz650-1000 stuff + HD springs???
Thank you,
Marc

Yes. Everything fits correctly. Our retainer has .070" from top of the valve to top of the retasiner. Check that on the 650. You would want .090 max.

 

[kochic]

Thank you Billy,
I had read old post here about your monster GS1000 engine.
i will try to sort this stuff in the next week.
Marc

Hey Kochic......Been there done that....First things first. Take one valve and hold it on the seat with your finger. Place a dab of grease on top of the valve stem. Now put a shim on the grease (2.00 is good) and install the lifter bucket. Now put the cam in place with the lobe facing away and see how much clearance you have. Find out what size shim is needed to obtain the correct clearance.
To test keeper to retainer fit, I always take one valve (in your hand) and drop the retainer over the stem, put keepers in place and pull up hard on the retainer. It should wedge firmly into place on the valve. If it does not do this, the taper is wrong. Now put the shim size you found above^^ into the retainer and test for fit. It must sit on the valve stem only and stick up slightly above the top of the retainer.
Post results and I will try to help.........Billy

 

[kochic]

thank you Jay,
I will check that this weekend if i find some time.
Marc

Yes. Everything fits correctly. Our retainer has .070" from top of the valve to top of the retasiner. Check that on the 650. You would want .090 max.