Urgent Help needed

[jpaul]

Nut number 23 is the upper engine mount. The nut (apart from me) in question is 24, bolt 22. Dropping the oil pan is not going to get me closer, it's definately the lower half of the crankcase.

Anyone got a spare lying around, per chance????

Okay, I was talking about the same nut. I was looking at the 1980 diagram; same parts, different numbering. The front corner of the oil pan is less than 3 inches from the hole you made. I just pulled the pan off my engine to have a look. Any metal chips from the hole would have an easy path to the pickup for the oil pump.

I would pull the oil pan just to be sure I got any metal chips out of there. If you pull the oil pump too, you can get at the hole from the inside. Drill out the hole from the outside enough to fit a small screw into it install the screw from the inside, with some JB Weld on the screw. The gasket for the oil pan is $8. Cheap price to be sure you keep metal shavings from getting in the pump.

 

[Nerobro]

wow dude. Though it's going to come as a "no duh" for you at this point. when drilling out a bolt, you MUST do it on center, and concentric to the screw. Though this is also a situation where I would have broken out the grinding wheel instead of trying to drill it out.

Defintely talk to planecrazy, that aluminum brazing rod he has would be ideal for this. JB weld isn't the best for this. Glues don't necessarily have the same expantion rate as the aluminum on the case. The aluminum brazing rod will work ;-)

And if you feel to bad.. you're talking to the kid who dropped two snap rings into the crankcase of his bike. one into the hole where the primary is. EEP...

 

[Plasterdog]

Planecrazy, I'll call later/tomorrow -busy day today, three shoots over at NU-.

Thanks to all for your suggestions. My plan is to pull the motor -there is no easy way of getting at the area (maybe easier when the pipes are off)- and then strip it down, plug the hole from the inside, hopefully solve that weird rattle/ticking sound that I've had for a while, and rebuild.

This was definitely not my weekend for corrosion and frozen bolts. I also tried replacing the faucet in our second bathroom and in the process of trying to get the corroded nuts off cracked the bowl around the faucet. I'm not usually this klutzy.

"The bells, the bells, master, the bells..." Do they make ride bells for houses too?

 

[Baatfam]

I'm thinking pull the motor and weld up the hole.

I have to agree with Rosco....pull it/weld it.

Bob T.

 

[BadBillyB]

When using the factory bolt in this mounting location, with the flat washer on it, when completely tightened down, it misses going into the side of the engine cases by about .040" .....If you leave the flat washer off the bolt it will put a mark in the case when tightened. It's that close. It should be fairly simple to make a "pressure patch" that will seal the hole when the bolt is tightened. Like maybe a tire patch stuck to a piece of thin stainless. Any pressure at all will keep it from leaking. Try wedging a tapered chisel between the end of the bolt and the engine case (to hold it still) and grind away all of the bolt that is still remaining in the aluminum mounting boss. This will allow the tear drop shaped nut and the remaining bolt piece to come out of the bottom. That part of the engine case is very thin so if you use a pressure patch, you would want to first install the bolt, tighten it down all the way and then measure the clearance between the end of the bolt and the case. Make the patch just slightly thicker. If you decide to repair it another way, make sure you are aware of the clearance between the end of the bolt and the case.......BadBillyB

 

[Plasterdog]

Steve,

I have a product called HTS-2000 on hand, which might be perfect for this repair. Check out http://www.aluminumrepair.com for info and a video on how this stuff can be used in situations where conventional welding or heliarc don't work.

Dang, that stuff looks good!

 

[first timer]

you don't need to pull the motor to pull the oil pan. you will need to pull the exhaust pipes off, AND BE FORWARNED THAT THE HEADER BOLTS COULD BE SIEZED AS WELL. so if you do pull the exhaust bolts. use lots of pb blaster penatrating oil and heat. get your self a propane torch and get those exhaust bolts nice and toasty then spray em with some pb blaster then heat them up again. next try to loosen them while they are hot, do not force or muscle them, if they don't budge or they move just a little try tighening them up a little bit, then spray with more oil then try loosening them then tighten, you get the idea, just keep working each bolt back and forth loosening it up alittle bit more each time and keep using oil. just rember to move the torch around and not hold it in one place. also use a 6pt socket to garentee the bolt doesn't get striped.

after you get the pipes off, you can pretty easialy remove the oil pan while the bike is up right, but if you must you could probly lay the bike over on it's side, use some old tires to keep the motor from contacting the pavment. make sure to pull your gas tank off as well. then you should have a easier time getting at the oil pan. Just rember 6pt socket penatrating oil and time are your friends.

-ryan

 

[Planecrazy]

VERY GOOD ADVICE, Ryan, regardless of whether Steve pulls the motor or just removes parts to make the repair area accessable.

I'll be around, Steve, so call when you get the chance and we'll get your boo-boo fixed...

Regards,

 

[Plasterdog]

VERY GOOD ADVICE, Ryan, regardless of whether Steve pulls the motor or just removes parts to make the repair area accessable.

I'll be around, Steve, so call when you get the chance and we'll get your boo-boo fixed...

Regards,

Thanks Ryan. But as far as I can work out it's the lower crankcase not the oil pan.

Steve, I'm thinking the least I can do is take the pipes off and re-assess this situation.

 

[Planecrazy]

Thanks Ryan. But as far as I can work out it's the lower crankcase not the oil pan.

Steve, I'm thinking the least I can do is take the pipes off and re-assess this situation.

Even as a "stop-gap" measure (so you can ride Galena) we could simply seal the hole and stop the oil leak ... then you can fix it permanently over the winter. If we wanted to get slightly fancier we could use the HTS-2000 (or perhaps JB Weld) to not only seal the leak, but to mount a stud sticking out that would allow you to still attach the motor mount bracket and keep the engine stabilized ... then twist out the stud when you're ready to fix it permanently and properly...

Just a few ideas... before you go to the trouble of pulling pipes/etc. see if any of the above would work and let me know.

Regards,

 

[first timer]

i thought i read some post that said there was a good possablity that you could access the hole from the oil pan area especially if you removed the oil pump. i haven't checked the diagrams yet so i can't verify that.

your photos look like the oil pan sits below the hole, so maybe you will have a striaght shot form the inside out. if you use the brazen stuff you are going to want to make sure you don't drip any of that stuff into the inside and if you can get to it from the inside you can put a temperary plate on the inside to help the brazen pool inside the hole and not run into the inside of the motor.

-ryan

 

[jonr]

Plasterdog,

If you don't end up filling in the hole with new material, may I suggest that you remove the remaining mount bolt, heli-coil the hole, and then put in a two-part solution.

To plug the hole to the crankcase, squeeze in some JB weld back where the hole opens into the crankcase, Next insert a small set screw (usually tapered on one end and has the recessed hex head) all the way as far back as it will go in - plugging up the hole. Allow to sit for a few days. Then replace a slight shorter version of the motor-mount bolt in the remaining heli-coil threads.

Notice the attached diagram.

In the past, I have used PB blaster a cold chisel to chunk-out threaded remains. As metioned earlier a bit of heat helps too, but I would be nervous about that since you have an opening to the crankcase right there.

 

[Plasterdog]

Even as a "stop-gap" measure (so you can ride Galena) we could simply seal the hole and stop the oil leak ... then you can fix it permanently over the winter. If we wanted to get slightly fancier we could use the HTS-2000 (or perhaps JB Weld) to not only seal the leak, but to mount a stud sticking out that would allow you to still attach the motor mount bracket and keep the engine stabilized ... then twist out the stud when you're ready to fix it permanently and properly...

Just a few ideas... before you go to the trouble of pulling pipes/etc. see if any of the above would work and let me know.

Regards,

The only way to access the tear drop nut (easily, now) is to take the pipes off. Luckily (famous last words) I know the header bolts for the pipes are not frozen, I check them every couple of hundred miles or so, as a pair of them rattled out on me a while back. I'm thinking along the same lines, as in do a temp repair (something like BadBillyB suggested) and then have something to do on those long winter nights/weekends.

Also FYI I have indentified the parts on the photos which may clarify things, or not. :-D

Steve, what's your availability this weekend?

 

[Planecrazy]

Steve, what's your availability this weekend?

As far as I know I "am." Now having said that, make your request SOON so I can clear it with the wife...

Regards,

 

[Plasterdog]

Plasterdog,

If you don't end up filling in the hole with new material, may I suggest that you remove the remaining mount bolt, heli-coil the hole, and then put in a two-part solution.

To plug the hole to the crankcase, squeeze in some JB weld back where the hole opens into the crankcase, Next insert a small set screw (usually tapered on one end and has the recessed hex head) all the way as far back as it will go in - plugging up the hole. Allow to sit for a few days. Then replace a slight shorter version of the motor-mount bolt in the remaining heli-coil threads.

Notice the attached diagram.

In the past, I have used PB blaster a cold chisel to chunk-out threaded remains. As metioned earlier a bit of heat helps too, but I would be nervous about that since you have an opening to the crankcase right there.

Thanks Jon. That would work except I think the reason this happened in the first place is that the drill was slightly off center at the start, so it's not necessarily a straight shot, like your diagram (nicely done BTW). Once I have the pipes off and the nut/remains of bolt out, I'll be in a better position to see what I can do. And that probably will not happen 'till the weekend due to work constraints.

 

[Plasterdog]

As far as I know I "am." Now having said that, make your request SOON so I can clear it with the wife...

Regards,

I'll call when mine get's back and I can confirm, but Saturday I think is better -my brother-in-law may be coming in to town from London on Sunday.
Thanks.

 

[jonr]

Thanks Jon. That would work except I think the reason this happened in the first place is that the drill was slightly off center at the start, so it's not necessarily a straight shot, like your diagram (nicely done BTW). Once I have the pipes off and the nut/remains of bolt out, I'll be in a better position to see what I can do. And that probably will not happen 'till the weekend due to work constraints.

This is why they pay me the big bucks!

I certainly wish you the best of luck on this one... I feel your pain. For a long time, I though I would have to separate the cases on my shaftie because the output shaft casing was stuck. It's not a good feeling...

J

 

[80gs1000e]

Dude.... .....it can be fixed, just a temporary setback. I would do the temporary fix for the ride and over the winter get it sorted properly.

 

[Joe Nardy]

Once I have the pipes off and the nut/remains of bolt out, I'll be in a better position to see what I can do. And that probably will not happen 'till the weekend due to work constraints.

Steve,

It would be a good idea to start blasting the header nuts with some PB Blaster or Kroil. I'm sure you don't want any snapped exhaust studs to make your week any worse. I'd soak them every day, maybe several times a a day, hoping to fend off further issues.

Joe

 

[jpaul]

If you can get heat to the spot without pulling the engine, I would go with the HTS-2000 that Steve recommends. If it looks like it's too tight to do without pulling the engine out of the frame, my suggestion will work without pulling the engine. I have looked at the area on my engine, and I'm so sure it will work, that if you try it, and the repair fails, you can have the engine sitting on my bench. I wouldn't be concerned about using JB Weld on this; it is nothing more than an epoxy that's partially filled with steel. They have been using epoxies to glue aircraft together for over 50 years; it can withstand the expansion and contraction of aluminum. It's formulated to withstand temps up to 500?F. If your engine gets hotter than that in this spot, you have bigger problems than a hole in the crankcase. The biggest problem with my method is that the area must be REALLY, REALLY CLEAN. No residual oil on the surface when the epoxy is applied. Acetone would work really well for the final cleaning.

If someone can meet me on Thursday or Friday when I'm passing through the Chicago area, I can give you the nut and bolt so you have fresh parts to work with.