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Valve adjustment questions

  • Thread starter Thread starter WilliamGLX81
  • Start date Start date
I just ordered a set of feelers from Z1 enterprises. They were 20.00 including shipping. The smallest is .04 mm, but if that won't fit through, you're probably too tight anyway. These go in increments of .01 mm, so it should be easy to get dialed in. There's plenty of people selling the cheap Chinese crap on ebay and Amazon, but I won't trust them. I've been to China many times. They don't believe in doing things to spec. Heck, I've even been screwed with Chinese rulers that were wrong. And by quite a bit!
 
jsandidge said:
I just ordered a set of feelers from Z1 enterprises. They were 20.00 including shipping. The smallest is .04 mm, but if that won't fit through, you're probably too tight anyway. These go in increments of .01 mm, so it should be easy to get dialed in. There's plenty of people selling the cheap Chinese crap on ebay and Amazon, but I won't trust them. I've been to China many times. They don't believe in doing things to spec. Heck, I've even been screwed with Chinese rulers that were wrong. And by quite a bit!
Click to expand...

So nice of you to pigeon-hole an entire country and ethnic group. If you've been over there, then you already know that their opinion of Americans is that every single one of us is rich, fat, and lazy. Oh, and I almost forgot: arrogant. Would you say that's a fair assessment?

Anyway, the feeler gauges that I linked to aren't crap. I've measured them and they are accurate. The reason I keep recommending them is because there is no such thing as American-made metric feeler gauges that go in 0.01mm increments between 0.02mm and 0.1mm. The Chinese ones are accurate and you can get at least four for the price of the one at your local tool shop that won't even work for a Suzuki GS valve adjustment because it doesn't have the right sizes.
 
My only complaint about Chinese goods is inconsistency - some are quite accurate, some are not at all. I think this is because its been made more important to meet a numerical quota regardless of quality, which is happening everywhere these days.

But the feelers I bought for $5.85 at a local Napa match up with my caliper's readings of their sizes and they go .04 .05 .06 .08 .10 in mm, which should be enough to do a valve job, though it would be nice to have a .02/.03.
 
Didn't mean to offend anyone

Didn't mean to offend anyone

eil said:
So nice of you to pigeon-hole an entire country and ethnic group. If you've been over there, then you already know that their opinion of Americans is that every single one of us is rich, fat, and lazy. Oh, and I almost forgot: arrogant. Would you say that's a fair assessment?

Anyway, the feeler gauges that I linked to aren't crap. I've measured them and they are accurate. The reason I keep recommending them is because there is no such thing as American-made metric feeler gauges that go in 0.01mm increments between 0.02mm and 0.1mm. The Chinese ones are accurate and you can get at least four for the price of the one at your local tool shop that won't even work for a Suzuki GS valve adjustment because it doesn't have the right sizes.
Click to expand...

I should have worded that differently. I don't mean to pigeon-hole anybody. I just think something as important as valve clearances need feeler gauges you can trust. If they are accurate, great! It is good advice to measure them as you did.

Btw, have you solved the cold #1 cylinder problem? I have the exact same issue. Mine is #1 too.
 
Just about to go outside and install the new shims :D

By the way, how does the shim-lobe clearance affect the valves? Noise mostly?
 
I'll leave it to the experts for details, but tight ones can cause damage. Loose ones can be a little noisy.
 
Uh.... can you get an accurate measurement of the clearance after you replace them and before you run the engine? Because either my measurement, math, or current attempt at checking clearances is not looking good.

Also, my caliper says most of these shims are larger than their markings by .002 or .003mm (and they aren't marked with an x).

I checked the clearances immediately after removing the zip ties and rotating the engine once or twice, and came up with the following measurements:
1 2 3 4
In .06 .06 ? .08
Ex .07 .07 .07 08

The .07 means the .06 fit, but the .08 did not.
Then 10 minutes later, I got these measurements:

1 2 3 4
In .06 .04x .04x .06x
Ex .04x .06x .06 <.04

I changed shims on the measurements with an x.

I think I see where I screwed up now - when the .04mm feeler didn't fit, I assumed that the clearance was .03. On all the valves where I measured ".03", the clearance must have been less than that.

And uh... heh. Maybe I had the feelers swapped (.08 and .04) when I did the measurement right after the shim swapping. Eh. Dinner time.
 
Last edited:
WilliamGLX81 said:
Uh.... can you get an accurate measurement of the clearance after you replace them and before you run the engine? Because either my measurement, math, or current attempt at checking clearances is not looking good.
Click to expand...
You should at least spin the engine several times to "seat" the shims.

I will use the electric starter to spin the engine for about 5 seconds, it tends to work well for me.



WilliamGLX81 said:
Also, my caliper says most of these shims are larger than their markings by .002 or .003mm (and they aren't marked with an x).
Click to expand...
What do your calipers read when you close them completely? If they read .002 or .003mm, you need to zero them.

By the way, is that .002mm or .02mm? :-k
Mine only go to two decimal points, yours must be pretty good if they go to three places. :-\\\

.
 
Steve said:
You should at least spin the engine several times to "seat" the shims.

I will use the electric starter to spin the engine for about 5 seconds, it tends to work well for me.




What do your calipers read when you close them completely? If they read .002 or .003mm, you need to zero them.

By the way, is that .002mm or .02mm? :-k
Mine only go to two decimal points, yours must be pretty good if they go to three places. :-\\\

.
Click to expand...

Haha, they only go to .01. I got excited :P

I was thinking about running the starter, but I think I should put the valve cover back on at least loosely. Right?
 
WilliamGLX81 said:
I was thinking about running the starter, but I think I should put the valve cover back on at least loosely. Right?
Click to expand...
I don't.
icon_shrug.gif


.
 
Well, then. I'll see if the cam chain gives me a skunkstripe. Heh.
 
Hokay, spun the engine (valve cover off) with no bad results. Most of the readings shaped up, except two troublemakers.

Now I've got these clearances:
1 2 3 4
In .06 .06 .10 .06
Exh <.04 .05 .07 .07

The <.04 was with a 2.55x shim, which I measured to be 2.60/2.61... Seems odd. The .04 feeler measured as .04 with the same pressure on the caliper wheel.
The .10 is what I wound up with once I moved that 2.55x shim to Intake #3. I've got 2x2.65x and a 2.65 shim. I think I crammed a 2.65x shim into Exh1, but I forget what size it was now. I'll have to measure it in the morning.

name measured
2.65x 2.70
2.65x 2.70
2.65 2.68

The .10 is ... ok I guess. But kind of far off from the others. I guess it's fine.

So for Exhaust #1 I'll need to get ahold of a 2.55 shim, since the 2.55x is too big.
 
Anybody else have shims that measure larger than the size marked on them?

And make that a 2.50 shim for exhaust #1. I'd rather the clearance be a little big than a little small. As in .10 would be preferable to .05.
 
You need a micrometer to properly measure shims, not calipers. And yes, it's common to find shims that are in between sizes. The larger in between sized ones received that X designation. When adjusting valves it's useful to have a micrometer to measure your spare shims, assuming you have spare shims, so you can look for just the right size. At least that's what I do anyway.
 
Everybody recommended calipers. I would have gone micrometer if I had the extra $20 to spend on one.

These shims that are bigger than their marking do not have the x designation. The standard are reading .02-.04mm larger than they should, and so are the x designated shims.
 
micrometers are more accurate- a caliper's narrow contact point causes problems plus you have to be consistent with hand pressure. I found very few shims marked correctly ( i have an accurate mic used for years on tight tolerance work). But either tool will give you a decent relative idea of one shim to another. Don't obsess about getting the exact size shim- I run all mine to high side or just over.
 
While a mic is better calipers will get you in the ballpark. Bottom line is you need to install a shim and then measure the clearance. I also have never met a shim that actually matched its markings.
Just be glad you have shim over buckets. I have shim under bucket on my GPz, which means I have to remove the cams to change shims. PITA, but they won't spit out at 11000 rpm.
 
koolaid_kid said:
While a mic is better calipers will get you in the ballpark. Bottom line is you need to install a shim and then measure the clearance. I also have never met a shim that actually matched its markings.
Just be glad you have shim over buckets. I have shim under bucket on my GPz, which means I have to remove the cams to change shims. PITA, but they won't spit out at 11000 rpm.
Click to expand...

Actually, it seemed like it might be less work to remove the cams than to spin the motor and do each shim one at a time. Except then you can't re-measure without a lot of trouble. 11,000 rpm eh? I haven't gotten my bike over 6 grand yet (leaky carb boots and valves out of spec). What kind of bike? A GPz?
 
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