Vinyl Decal as masking tape

[StubbornDutchman]

I'm redoing the paint on my '82 650 and am hoping to continue learning about using rattle cans for factory looking paint jobs. I've done some parts before with varying degrees of success, each better than the last. Pretty sure I can get this one perfect. I've been researching for months now.

I've filled the emblem holes on my side covers with J-B Plastik and sanded it down smooth. I then sprayed 4 coats of primer, wet sanding with 1000 in between and wiping with a tack cloth before each coat. They look absolutely perfect. Next i'm going to spray down a silver base that will be a pinstripe then tape it off with 1/8" fineline spray the centre burnt orange and the outside root beer brown. Then finish it with a 2K clear.

Here is my question. In the centre of the covers I want to lay a logo from an artist group that has influenced my life. I found a 4"x3" logo as a vinyl graphic. If i lay that on my silver base coat and then spray the orange overtop will I be able to lift the vinyl cleanly or will it bleed? Or will it leave a ripped edge? Anyone ever laid a graphic under the paint and then lifted it before clear coat?



Any idea's suggestions or things I should watch for would be really helpful.
Thanks in advance.

 

[nvr2old]

That should work as long as you don't spray the base coat really wet and if you don't have to use more then a couple of coats to get the color where you want it. If you spray it too wet, chances are the orange paint will eat into the logo mask, and if it has too much paint over it, it might not lift off cleanly. Take your time, be patient, and it should be fine.

Just as an aside, a 1,000 grit surface on the primer coats is a little fine to be spraying the silver base coat over. You actually need a little "tooth" for the paint to adhere well. A 600 surface would be safer, otherwise the paint might not stick very well. The chances of the graphic pulling off the silver when you remove it is very possible w/o having at least a 600 surface for it to adhere to.

 

[StubbornDutchman]

That should work as long as you don't spray the base coat really wet and if you don't have to use more then a couple of coats to get the color where you want it. If you spray it too wet, chances are the orange paint will eat into the logo mask, and if it has too much paint over it, it might not lift off cleanly. Take your time, be patient, and it should be fine.

Just as an aside, a 1,000 grit surface on the primer coats is a little fine to be spraying the silver base coat over. You actually need a little "tooth" for the paint to adhere well. A 600 surface would be safer, otherwise the paint might not stick very well. The chances of the graphic pulling off the silver when you remove it is very possible w/o having at least a 600 surface for it to adhere to.

Very good to know. Thanks a lot for the heads up. I'll wipe them down with 600 then before I spray the base. I'm going to be repainting the tank as well obviously. And a helmet that was given to me with a hidious factory graphic that I'll make match the bike.

 

[nvr2old]

My only other concern would be that most vinyl graphics weren't meant to be used as a masking tool or to be pulled off after they're applied. Those things really stick, as they're supposed to. Getting them off once they're on, and, on top of fresh paint could create problems. Not saying it can't be done, but I'd be sure the silver is good and dry before you put the graphics on top. Might even be a better idea to spray a couple of coats of the catalyzed clear over the silver to protect it and to have a more hardened surface. Sand the clear smooth with 600 before you attach the vinyl to it, do your orange, pull the mask, then re-clear everything again.

 

[jsandidge]

vinyl mask

vinyl mask

If you take your logo to a graphics shop, they can re-create it from vinyl that is specifically made to use as a paint masking. It will pull off much easier when you are ready to peel it. Also, a little soapy water before you apply the masking will let you position it easier. Just let it dry thoroughly, and clean everything well before you spray.

 

[spyug]

If you take your logo to a graphics shop, they can re-create it from vinyl that is specifically made to use as a paint masking.

Or if there is an artist supply store near you, they will carry a film that is designed to be used that way. I have used some in the past but I'm afraid I don't recall the brand.

Good luck with it.

 

[nvr2old]

If you take your logo to a graphics shop, they can re-create it from vinyl that is specifically made to use as a paint masking. It will pull off much easier when you are ready to peel it. Also, a little soapy water before you apply the masking will let you position it easier. Just let it dry thoroughly, and clean everything well before you spray.

That's a really good suggestion.

 

[Nunzio]

I agree, If it was done in a vinyl graphic it can be reproduced in a Avery yellow paint mask. It can be scanned and cut.

I would avoid using the original vinyl as a mask, its too sticky and the paint will react with it somewhat and make it soft.

 

[Guest]

yes, you can get the film:
http://www.dickblick.com/products/grafix-frisket-film/
http://www.londongraphics.co.uk/pro...-Adhesive-Masking-Film/list/perpage/20/page/1

 

[StubbornDutchman]

Thanks a lot guys. That film looks really useful. But there is another problem.
The logo isn't a 1-piece design?. Its 7?. here is a link to it.
http://reach.merchline.com/collections/accessories/products/116-vinyl-decal-4-x-3
So to print it onto the film, cut it out and then position it correctly on the bike would be really really difficult. Any suggestions? Or maybe I can carefully cut just the film with a razor and not the backing paper. Then lay it like I would a vinyl. Anyone worked with the film before to know if thats possible?

 

[Nunzio]

Here's another solution. If your using rattle cans, because the chance of you getting the paint applied any thinner than you would if you just used the vinyl. Just stick the decal on and clear over it, several coats of clear will bear the same results as masking and painting using rattle cans. If you looking for show quality or a seamless paint line you need to think about using quality automotive paints and a proper paint gun.

 

[StubbornDutchman]

Here's another solution. If your using rattle cans, because the chance of you getting the paint applied any thinner than you would if you just used the vinyl. Just stick the decal on and clear over it, several coats of clear will bear the same results as masking and painting using rattle cans. If you looking for show quality or a seamless paint line you need to think about using quality automotive paints and a proper paint gun.

Thanks. I may end up doing just this but I was really hoping to make the logo the same silver as my pinstripe and it's only sold in black. Or maybe I'll end up altering my paint scheme and deleting the logo on the bike but adding it as a normal vinyl on my helmet.

I do have a mid-quality paint gun and a 13.5CFM compressor at my disposal. But I'm actually doing it specifically with rattle cans to see if I can learn more about making a quality finish with an inferior product.

I am using quality rattle cans from an auto body supplier and a clear with hardener in one of those fancy new spraymax clears to see how good they are.
http://www.spraymax.com/index.php?id=361&L=1

Worst comes to worst I waste $100, sand it all down, and start over.

 

[Scratcher09]

Don't use anything not meant to be masking. Not only is the adhesive too strong, but it could leave residue that can contaminate your paint job. And if you decide to use a decal and clear over it, make sure it has an adhesive that is able to be clear coated (as factory decals are). Many vinyl decals use an adhesive that can release gases over time that will adversely affect your clear coat.

Catalyzed spray cans are the only kind of rattle cans that should be used on bikes or cars. So much more durable than rattle can. Proper prep work is too much work to waste on regular rattle cans which will fail. Non catalyzed rattle can jobs can look factory if you know what you are doing, but they will not stay looking that good very long at all--especially if you intend to ride it.

Also, I use 400 grit before primer, 600 before base coats, and 800 before clear (if needed).

 

[StubbornDutchman]

Don't use anything not meant to be masking. Not only is the adhesive too strong, but it could leave residue that can contaminate your paint job. And if you decide to use a decal and clear over it, make sure it has an adhesive that is able to be clear coated (as factory decals are). Many vinyl decals use an adhesive that can release gases over time that will adversely affect your clear coat.

Catalyzed spray cans are the only kind of rattle cans that should be used on bikes or cars. So much more durable than rattle can. Proper prep work is too much work to waste on regular rattle cans which will fail. Non catalyzed rattle can jobs can look factory if you know what you are doing, but they will not stay looking that good very long at all--especially if you intend to ride it.

Also, I use 400 grit before primer, 600 before base coats, and 800 before clear (if needed).

As far as I know all the sprays will be catalyzed. I'll make sure from my supplier first though. He did assure me they are all correct factory automotive paints I just have to pick the colors I want and he'll order them for me. And the clear is as stated last post. I can't see any problems arising other than my own incompetence.

 

[Scratcher09]

Just checkin in to see if you got good results. Post some pics.

 

[Tempted]

Depending on the solvent in the paint it might eat, shrink or warp the decal. I use pieces of cereal boxes as stencils. Normally I draw or trace the pattern, cut it with an exacto knife, spray it with Plastidip and then press it to the piece I'm painting. The Plastidip holds the stencil in place and when you're done paint just remove it and peel off the remaining Plastidip.

 

[StubbornDutchman]

Just checkin in to see if you got good results. Post some pics.

Unfortunately... It'll be a little while. Have no heat to work and it's not going to warm up for a week or two yet. I'm really stoked to get it done. But I have to wait..... Guess I jumped the gun asking the questions. I'll make sure to post results when it's done.

 

[Flyboy]

Phaaaaa, that logo is not intricate at all, a piece of old tacky,
Photocopy it onto some project board, take a blade, cut out the letters and numbers carefully, and you have a stencil, sure beats spraying over and pulling off and worrying about this and that.

 

[StubbornDutchman]

So I tried using a piece of stiff cardboard as a cutout stencil to see if that would work. It looks good from afar?. but far from good. The stencil bled and sprayed over around some of the edges of the letter. I figured this would happen. Which doesn't bother me. I did some more research and I'm wondering if anyone here has used Frisket Film? Is it similar to the aforementioned Avery Mask?

Here is my so far results.

Filling in the holes

Removed the chrome and primed the side cover

First stencil attempt (not happy) I'll mask it on the good one obviously

 

[Flyboy]

The reason it is bleeding through is because you are spraying it on too wet, light mist coats is the way to go grasshopper.
And make sure your edges are down flush with the cover to give you a nice crisp edge, this will without a doubt lead to red fingers, but that has never killed anyone yet.....that I know of.