• Required reading for all forum users!!!

    Welcome!
    Register to access the full functionality of the GSResources forum. Until you register and activate your account you will not have full forum access, nor will you be able to post or reply to messages.

    A note to new registrants...
    All new forum registrations must be activated via email before you have full access to the forum.

    A Special Note about Email accounts!
    DO NOT SIGN UP USING hotmail, outlook, gmx, sbcglobal, att, bellsouth or email.com. They delete our forum signup emails.

    A note to old forum members...
    I receive numerous requests from people who can no longer log in because their accounts were deleted. As mentioned in the forum FAQ, user accounts are deleted if you haven't logged in for the past 6 months. If you can't log in, then create a new forum account. If you don't get an error message, then check your email account for an activation message. If you get a message stating that the email address is already in use, then your account still exists so follow the instructions in the forum FAQ for resetting your password.

    Have you forgotten your password or have a new email address? Then read the forum FAQ for details on how to reset it.

    Any email requests for "can't log in anymore" problems or "lost my password" problems will be deleted. Read the forum FAQ and follow the instructions there - that's what we have one for...

  • Returning Visitors

    If you are a returning visitor who never received your confirmation email, then odds are your email provider is blockinig emails from our server. The only thing that can be done to get around this is you will have to try creating another forum account using an email address from another domain.

    If you are a returning visitor to the forum and can't log in using your old forum name and password but used to be able to then chances are your account is deleted. Purges of the databases are done regularly. You will have to create a new forum account and you should be all set.

weak needle valves causing leak?

  • Thread starter Thread starter claygs750e
  • Start date Start date
So are you saying the set I bought from Z1 might not fix the problem or they just won't hold up as well over time when compared to OEM? If somehow it turns out not to be the valve needles and the floats are to spec for height what would be my next step for the gas leak?
 
Again I disagree because I have had it happen form that exact reason...and that reason alone. Spring was broke and the needle fell about 2MM lower than the rest when I lifted the floats and looked at them all. Put in a needle with a good spring and that fixed it. Changed absolutely nothing else and the only common denominator was the spring.


Do it to your carbs once!!!
 
chuck hahn said:
Again I disagree because I have had it happen form that exact reason...and that reason alone. Spring was broke and the needle fell about 2MM lower than the rest when I lifted the floats and looked at them all. Put in a needle with a good spring and that fixed it. Changed absolutely nothing else and the only common denominator was the spring.


Do it to your carbs once!!!
Click to expand...

Pretty much what I said... If it's broke then it wont work as designed. A broken pin spring will leave the total length of the float valve too short to work. I don't understand why you keep arguing about it. All I've ever said is that the purpose of the spring loaded pin was to act as a shock absorber and keep the float from hammering the seat. The only area I didn't agree with you on is that the spring forces the seat closed by design. That's not the reason for the design including a spring loaded pin.

As an experiment, take a working float valve and put a small dab of glue at the base of the pin to lock it up. The float valve will still work even though the spring is now effectively disabled.
 
Its easier to argue with asparagus than hammers.

It listens to reason a little bit.
 
claygs750e said:
So are you saying the set I bought from Z1 might not fix the problem or they just won't hold up as well over time when compared to OEM? If somehow it turns out not to be the valve needles and the floats are to spec for height what would be my next step for the gas leak?
Click to expand...


One test is easy to make -- take the carbs off, remove the bowls, flip the carbs upside-down, and see if the springs in the needles are strong enough to hold the floats up without compressing at all (that's how OEM needles work). The springs compress easily if you poke a float with a finger, of course, but they should not compress at all under just the weight of a float. If they don't pass this test, you'll never be able to set a correct float height. Throw them in the garbage.

The other test is not as easy to make: after a few months or many years of use, the needles should show no visible wear. Many aftermarket needles are much softer than the OEM needles, and will quickly develop visible lines in the metal and wear rapidly.


Much as I love Z1, they sell K&L carb kits and parts, which in my experience and that of many others, exhibit the problems outlined above. Unless K&L has suddenly improved its quality recently, be cautious.
 
We'll I'm not sure what's going on now. I received the new needles and replaced all four, then adjusted the float height to right at 22mm. The floats themselves are in good condition. Some of the needles no matter what I did depressed slightly. Reattached the carbs and still leaking out of carbs 3 and 4 out of the vent tube, spraying out of the air jet hole.Is the problem still the fact the needle springs are depressing? I pushed the tab pretty high, but it started getting far out of spec. So What else could be causing this problem?
 
Last edited:
claygs750e said:
Some of the needles no matter what I did depressed slightly.
Click to expand...

Please clarify... Are the new needles OEM or aftermarket? Explain what you mean that they depressed slightly?

Even if the needles are good, you didn't replace the seats. No matter how good the needles are, if the seats are bad they will still leak.

With that said, can you post some pics of the carbs? Please include pics of the float height and the needles on all the carbs. If the new needles worked on carbs 1 & 2 then they should have worked on 3 & 4 if the seats are in good working order.
 
Golly gee gas could even be leaking around the seat to body joint via the o ring

replaced all your o rings?
 
Yea, I did a complete o-ring kit, dyno stage 3 kit for pods and aftermarket pipes and now new needles.

So, after my last post I removed the carbs again and removed the floats. I sprayed water in the seats and the water drain out. I then inserted the needles only and sprayed water in the seats and the needles held the water in with their own weight. So wouldn't that tell me the seal between the seat and needle is good since it's not letting water through? So....even though all the floats were at 22mm I thought maybe they are too low and the floats aren't pushing the needle up far enough. I adjusted the tab where the float now is at 25mm. I started the bike and after an initial leak (had it on prime too long maybe to fill the bowls) then no leak at all and the bike is running good. So was that all it was? Floats were too low even though they were spec?
 
Easy enough to find out. Check the fuel level in all four carbs while the engine is running.
 
How do I do that since the bowls are attached ?

So I went to start the bike this morning and it's hard to start like it's not getting enough gas. Last night I got to the point when I hit the start button and it came right on over and over without difficulty. I had to initially spray carb cleaner and getting it warmed up. Now keep in mine I haven't synced the carbs yet with the carbtune device yet. Should I get it running, then sync and then determine if I have another problem? Could the carbs not being synced impact it getting started or only impact how rough it rides?
 
Last edited:
Don't assume that hard starting is always lean. Hard starting could be too little or too much fuel. If the fuel is still leaking or the floats are too high it can cause hard starting as well.

You can check the fuel level dynamically by either making or purchasing a float bowl drain plug that you attach a clear tube to. You loop the tube up higher then the bowl. The amount of fuel in the tube will indicate how high the fuel level is in the bowl. It should be about at the point where the curved portion of the bowl meets the flanged portion. You need to check all 4 either separately or at the same time.

A poor sync can effect both starting and drive ability but it would have to be pretty badly out of sync to not allow it to start.
 
claygs750e said:
How do I do that since the bowls are attached ?
Click to expand...
It's not particularly hard. Put the bike on the center stand on a level surface, rig your tank or an auxiliary tank so you can see the carburetors. drain one bowl put the bowl site tool in as described in the Suzuki manual. Prime the bowl for a static reading, then start the bike for a reading while running. Repeat with each carburetor. http://www.z1enterprises.com/ItemDe...vel+Gauge+Tool+Kawasaki+Suzuki&item=ZSM01-208
 
The description for the fuel level gauge says its for a VM carburetor. Will it work on myBS 32 CV carbs?

So what will the test actually tell me? If the gas level in each bowl is the same? Could the gas not being exactly even make it that hard to start? I just don't want to buy something else like I didnt need like possibly the needles and it ended up not being the case and the issue is still with the float.
 
Like he said..just use a drain bolt and clear tubing. the manual shows the gap required between the carb flange and the fuel level. find that info in the service manual. hook up the tube, and measure away.

Some even make two marks the set distance apart. Hold the top mark at the flange and see where the fuel hit in relation to the lower mark.

The test will tell you if the float hts are set enough to have the fuel in the required operating range..if not you tweek the floats till the fuel is in the specs.
 
I ordered the tubing on ebay so hopefully I can get the floats aligned and then do a sync. (at least there's no leak now even though the floats are higher then spec) I went out there tonight and sprayed carb cleaner in the carbs and it's starts right up and stays running. Can you explain why it would need the carb cleaner for the initial start up and then apparently it doesn't have a problem getting fuel after since it stays running? I don't have a great understanding how it all works together.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top