What this? Doesnt look factory

[82GSdave]

I recerntly started going through the wiring on my 82 GSX400T (canadian). When I got the bike there was a blue wire on the starter side of the solenoid, and it was soldered/taped the the orange/white wire of the coil. It doesnt spark (while cranking atleast) without it hooked up. Is it factory or something that somebody added?

 

[jsandidge]

Not factory.

 

[Runeight]

Someone defiantly tapped into the wire. Lousy solder job to boot.

In the past I have used posi-taps, work very well.

 

[Guest]

So that's the hot wire for the coil, I think it's controlled by the start button. Now why would they need that for the starter solenoid? Are you saying the bike won't start without the blue wire hooked up?

 

[loud et]

Could have been a wire for an auxiliary tachometer?

 

[JamesWhut?]

Probably jumpering over a bad coil wire. The starter positive terminal stays hot while the switch is in the run position.

Someone defiantly tapped into the wire. Lousy solder job to boot.

At least it wasn't just a wire nut screwed half on...

 

[82GSdave]

OK so the blue wire in question runs from that lousy solder job, and goes to the starter solenoid on the starter motor side with a ring terminal. When disconnected from the solenoid, I still have power at the orange/white wire at each coil. BUT when disconnected there is no spark while cranking. The bike doesnt run so I cant say whether or not the bike will run with this wire disconnected (going through carbs this week).

The wiring was a mess, when I started nothing would happen off the start button, and I found the 6 pin connector from the right handlebar control unplugged, as well as the solenoid trigger wire. the main bike harness was plugged into a different 6 pin connector that appeared to go to the gauge cluster? maybe it went somewhere else, but once the right handlebar control was plugged back into the main bike harness it worked off the switch but that other 6 pin connector didnt have a receptical.

Maybe theres a chunk of harness missing, and because of that there isnt any power to the coils while the starter is engaged, and that blue wire is a cheap solution? Far fetched Im sure but I dont understand why its like that otherwise.

 

[Gorminrider]

View attachment 45474<clickme bigger?

I think the area in question should be like this....note that the Orange/White goes to RUN switch AND starter button. as original, you need switch to Run or starter button won't spin, the orange wire being the + supply to both..Maybe the PO didn't get this-so maybe the RUN switch is broken, disabled, rewired.....because as original, the coils have power whenever the RUN switch is on, whatever the starter is doing... by the way, originally, the starter button wires went through a switch at clutch too and possibly even a kickstand switch...I'm not sure about 82s, I've only a rusty parts bike that year.
You better get into your wiring diagram.

You can see a blue wire on the edge...as original it goes to Neutral indicator light, so I think the PO just happened to find a chunk of blue wire around somewhere...
...the purple bordered note is irrelevant to the problem.
Hopefully this is all the PO did...

 

[82GSdave]

View attachment 45474<clickme bigger?

I think the area in question should be like this....note that the Orange/White goes to RUN switch AND starter button. as original, you need switch to Run or starter button won't spin, the orange wire being the + supply to both..Maybe the PO didn't get this-so maybe the RUN switch is broken, disabled, rewired.....because as original, the coils have power whenever the RUN switch is on, whatever the starter is doing... by the way, originally, the starter button wires went through a switch at clutch too and possibly even a kickstand switch...I'm not sure about 82s, I've only a rusty parts bike that year.
You better get into your wiring diagram.

You can see a blue wire on the edge...as original it goes to Neutral indicator light, so I think the PO just happened to find a chunk of blue wire around somewhere...
...the purple bordered note is irrelevant to the problem.
Hopefully this is all the PO did...

As far as wiring goes I believe so, dont ask what he did to what would otherwise be nice original condition fenders....

I have a wiring diagram, and Ive gone through the wiring and all of that exists and works as it should. IGN switch on, run switch in on, I have power at the orange switch at each coil. Leave the blue wire off the solenoid, pull a sparkplug and crank it off the button, and I have no spark. Hook that blue wire back up to the starter motor side of the solenoid and crank it, and now theres spark. Now youd think that, because theres power on the orange and the blue is connected to it, it would power the starter on its own, but it doesnt.

Come to think of it, in that wire theres something underneath some heat shrink. I bet its a diode... I just dont understand why the PO went through all that effort. I wish I was near the bike so I could take pictures or even look at it but its at my dads place.

Regardless the carbs are now gone through, hopefully I can see if it will run either this or next weekend.

 

[posplayr]

strongly suspect a poorly executed Coil Relay Mod.

 

[Gorminrider]

because theres power on the orange and the blue is connected to it, it would power the starter on its own, but it doesnt

first, FYI: The difference between "Orange" and "Orange/White stripe" as your picture shows is important..but whatever, the starter is a huge draw of current so if it was wired as original factory, I think it would blow the fuse or melt the wires rather than spin the starter .....but now you tell us

Come to think of it, in that wire theres something underneath some heat shrink. I bet its a diode

It would have to be a fair-sized diode and it would rob the coils of half a volt too.
When you get a better look at it, it'll be clearer.

 

[geol]

Inside your right handlebar switch the power coming off your kill switch loops OUT to the coils on the orange/white and then down to the start button. On my bike, that wire comes out and goes to a yellow/green wire that goes through the clutch interlock and then down to the starter solenoid. I can't imagine it did much good for the starter solenoid to have that wire hot all the time which is what they did here if the blue ran to it. The clutch interlock connects in the headlight shell and can easily be by-passed. I would test the yellow/green wire coming out of the right handlebar switch to where it comes out in the headlight shell and see if it has 12VDC when the start button is pushed. If your clutch interlock is bad (which is probably why the hack was performed), then connect the yellow/green out of the right handlebar switch to the yellow green going to the starter solenoid if the wire still is connect to the starter solenoid. If it isn't, then run a new one and solder it to where the blue wire was likely soldered by another cold solder joint.

 

[82GSdave]

first, FYI: The difference between "Orange" and "Orange/White stripe" as your picture shows is important..but whatever, the starter is a huge draw of current so if it was wired as original factory, I think it would blow the fuse or melt the wires rather than spin the starter .....but now you tell us
It would have to be a fair-sized diode and it would rob the coils of half a volt too.
When you get a better look at it, it'll be clearer.

Sorry, I did mean to type orange/white, simply saying orange is less typing and Im lazy when it comes to typing. I will have to have a better look at it.

 

[Steve]

Sorry, I did mean to type orange/white, simply saying orange is less typing and Im lazy when it comes to typing. I will have to have a better look at it.

You do realize that's a two-way street? :-k

Now that we know that you are lazy about your descriptions, we might be just as lazy with our suggestions.

.

 

[82GSdave]

You do realize that's a two-way street? :-k

Now that we know that you are lazy about your descriptions, we might be just as lazy with our suggestions.

.

My bad, it was the one time but I apologize, wont happen again

 

[82GSdave]

Inside your right handlebar switch the power coming off your kill switch loops OUT to the coils on the orange/white and then down to the start button. On my bike, that wire comes out and goes to a yellow/green wire that goes through the clutch interlock and then down to the starter solenoid. I can't imagine it did much good for the starter solenoid to have that wire hot all the time which is what they did here if the blue ran to it. The clutch interlock connects in the headlight shell and can easily be by-passed. I would test the yellow/green wire coming out of the right handlebar switch to where it comes out in the headlight shell and see if it has 12VDC when the start button is pushed. If your clutch interlock is bad (which is probably why the hack was performed), then connect the yellow/green out of the right handlebar switch to the yellow green going to the starter solenoid if the wire still is connect to the starter solenoid. If it isn't, then run a new one and solder it to where the blue wire was likely soldered by another cold solder joint.

The yellow/green wire does have power, or it did after I plugged everything in properly. The clutch handle was snapped off when I got the bike which explains why the yellow/green wire wasnt connected (Bike came free with a 60s fiberglass boat project my dad bought, cant really complain about condition too much). However I dont think it was a bypass for the clutch interlock, as this blue wire was attached to the solenoid using the same pole as the starter motor. the starter will still engage with or without the blue wire connected the only difference is spark at the plugs.

 

[82GSdave]

strongly suspect a poorly executed Coil Relay Mod.

I thought I had replied to this earlier but I must have pressed cancel by mistake. After researching what a coil relay mod is, and how it is supposed to be wired, I think this is the most likely possibility. Maybe the PO meant to add their blue wire to the battery pole of the solenoid, not understanding that it would be constantly hot? Or assumed that the starter pole of the solenoid was always hot with ignition on? Or maybe the PO just was trying to acheive a quicker start by sending full power from the solenoid to the coils during starting?

I try my best to describe everything as well as I can, but I think it would help alot to maybe draw a diagram showing how its wired. Doesnt look like Ill be getting back to the bike anytime soon unfortunately...

 

[82GSdave]

Ok, Ive made a simple diagram to hopefully help explain what Im saying. The rest of the igntion/kill switch circuit and the minimum of what is needed to run the bike is all factory as it should be, but this blue wire is added between the orange/white coil wire and the solenois on the starter pole.

Attachment came out really small, I hope this is better

 

[posplayr]

I applaud your effort to draw a schematic but unfortunately it is too small to read.

 

[Brendan W]

What you've done there is to use the starter relay as a coil relay that only works when the starter button is held down.
As soon as the button is released the normal coil supply will leak away through the starter motor which is now in parallel with the coils.
This looks to be a bad idea.