What to do with crankcases apart?

[Guest]

Don: I wish!!!! Been waiting for daylight savings for years... Captain Bligh seems to think otherwise though unfortunately...

Nick: Good idea with the foam. I was planning on just poking them through a piece of paper for the moment though.

My biggest problem isn't the motor bolts though, it's actually the rest of the bike which is still in boxes from moving house last year. That's the mess that's really going to give me some "fun" sorting out!

 

[Steve]

Have you determined whether your heim joints are any good? I have a set from a donor 450 sitting in my parts box that I have absolutely no need for. They can be yours for the cost of shipping, if you are interested.

.

 

[Guest]

Hi Steve, no idea at the moment I'm afraid.

All my parts are in cardboard boxes from moving house last year, so I need to get the garage organised and sort them out again.

I'm considering making up or finding some rear sets that fit the GS though, so I may not require the standard ones yet, but unfortunately it's far too early to tell.

Thanks for the offer though and if I do need them I'll give you a yell, but in the meantime don't hang onto them for my sake if someone else is in need.

 

[Steve]

... don't hang onto them for my sake if someone else is in need.

I did not realize that I was 'hanging onto them' in the first place. I was digging through a box looking for something else and saw the pedal with the linkage and asked myself "I wonder what bike this came off of?" I have parts from a few non-GS bikes in some of my parts boxes, so I was not sure. However, seeing your post and the pictures, I was reminded that they came from my son's first bike, an '81 450T.

.

 

[mcneilk]

engine strip

engine strip

not to hijack this thread but i thought this was relavent. i have taken the motor out of a '78 850. last night i went at it without any manual. i have downloaded the manual from basscliff's site but no cpu at the shed.

i was reading the manual this am. first off when i removed the cams i didn't loosen the caps diagonally. secondly i didn't mark the tappett covers with the corresponding tappets. third i didn't loosen the bolts of the cylinder head in any kinda pattern. will any or all these things cause problems later? whats it called under the cylinder head? i took that piece off to.

this bike and motor werent in any sorta running condition when i got em. its more my learning tool.

another thing after reading the manual is the about the valves. how can i get em out without the valve lifter tool? also are they supposed to move easily. i can't get em to budge a bit. the whole head is in terrible shape with rust and crud as are the piston tops.

the next step is splitting the cases but i won't tackle that until i have this other stuff sorted. then its time to organize and box up whats come off so far. this project is completely without a deadline and close to 0 budget. the more the budget goes up the further away the deadline will be.

 

[Nessism]

You need a valve spring compressor to remove the valves - compress the springs and remove the small keepers holding everything together (mark the valves with where they go first).

Not good about mixing up the valve buckets, the other issue with loosening up the bolts is not super critical I don't think. More important when tightening the bolts.

 

[Guest]

Ok, had a spare half an hour yesterday morning before work, so cleared some space on the workbench to put the bottom half of the crankcases.

Got a piece of paper and stuck all the bolts through and even managed to take some pic's.

It's looking pretty clean inside, although it appears there are some small amounts of metal filings etc. that will need to be cleaned out.

Top half still sitting on the bin for now:

Shifting forks look pretty good at a quick glance:

Closeup of the crank shaft:

Bolts:

 

[Guest]

And the gearbox:

Apologies for some of the pic's being a bit blurry, not even a digital camera can make up for my really bad photography (lack of) skills!

Anyway, next step is to start getting all those bits out to inspect and then clean the cases and paint them.

 

[Busafied]

How many miles on this motor? (sorry if you posted that already-)

I build a few engines here and there, mostly more modern ones now.
but about 30+ through my years.
last being the Hayabusa motor pushing tad over 300 hp on low boost.

Check your bearings for ANY scoring or wear.
Cheaper to replace them then tear the motor back down because you chose to skip this step.
The case markings (Letters stamped into your cases) will be your guide for main bearing replacements if needed.
Take the markings on the case and the markings on the Crank, use the chart in your manual or pdf file and replace them per the CHART.
Use plasti-gauge to verify clearances and adjust them accordingly.

I prefer to use Ultra Grey to mate my cases, it IMHO is the best by far.
Again only my experiences///
Replace the push rod & output shaft Seals, etc etc/

As mentioned, pull the wrist pin's and check the small end for distortion/scoring as mentioned, if they look good typically the rest of the rod is fine.
Pull the rod caps and just verify there is no scoring hiding under there or wear in the bearings.

YOU HAVE THE MOTOR DOWN NOW- Use our experiences and DO IT ALL ONCE~

Check the bearings on the transmission shafts for roughness, clean them with kerosene or another solvent, then test them again see if it fixed the rough feel or not.
If they still feel rough or you see pitting REPLACE.
A trick to replace an Output Shaft bearing, have the old one pressed off/
Then put the OUTPUT shaft in the freezer for a few hours, then push the bearing over the cold shaft.
HURRY, time is not your friend~ If you dilly dally the bearing will become cold and shrink down on the shaft causing you to have to have it pressed on ...
Just work fast and it will slide right on.

Next-Check your Transmission gears, you will need snap ring pliers to pull them apart.
Keep it in order take your time and PAY ATTENTION/
You want to check the engagement dogs on the gears (in between them) for rounding off of the edges, especially 2nd gear (longest throw and most suspect to missed shifts and rounding of the engagement dogs).]
Check your Shifter forks for worn edges.

I use Copper coat spray for all my head gskts, spray let get tacky then install to cylinders then slap on head.

Torque Sequence is MOST important on re-assembly-
Typically you will start in the upper center bolt then move around outward and clockwise per the manual.
Tear down, just try to remember to use a cross pattern, like you are supposed to do while tightening your lug nuts.

Most of your quality Gasket sets I would not use a sealer on.
Your cheaper eBay sets, use the Ultra Grey as mentioned it will help keep the gskts from sticking to your cases and covers...
I like the Ultra Grey IMHO and Experience it is the EASIEST to clean off the cases and covers, and yet one of the BEST sealers on the market.

When you set up your valve clearances just use the method prescribed in the manual and a nice non- magnetic set of feeler gauges (brass).
Enjoy removing the cams a few times unless you get lucky and get them figured out the first go around-
Jot down the Range on the INT (intake) and EXH (exhaust) from the manual, then I write down the measurements and adjust accordingly.

I am sure I am missing something, I have alot on my plate right now dealing with some personal issues.
But, I will try and keep up with the post and help when I can.

GL-
Ron

 

[Suzuki_Don]

You need a valve spring compressor to remove the valves - compress the springs and remove the small keepers holding everything together (mark the valves with where they go first).

Not good about mixing up the valve buckets, the other issue with loosening up the bolts is not super critical I don't think. More important when tightening the bolts.

Pete, you don't necessarily need a valve spring compressor tool to remove the valves and springs if you do it the "Aussie Way". Place head on work bench with rag stuffed in the combustion chamber (this prevents the valve moving down when you hit the valve retaining collar with the lump hammer). You then take a spark plug type socket, wrap it in black electrical tape so it won't score the inside surface where the valve bucket sits.

Place socket on valve collar and using decent size hammer (one size larger than claw hammer, here we call it a club hammer) give a sharp strike to the socket and the valve collets will pop out. Works every time and much faster than using the valve tool. You will need a special tool to replace them though, as a normal valve spring compressor will not work. You need to build an extension on the tool to reach inside the bucket cavity.

 

[Guest]

Busafied: Thanks for the info! That's the sort of thing I've been looking for in great detail, and I will be sure to do that to the best of my ability. This is my first ever teardown and rebuild, so I'll probably have lots more questions yet.

It has around 90000km's on the clock from memory (not sure where my instruments are right now).

Don: Thanks for the tip, will more than likely give that a shot

 

[TheCafeKid]

How many miles on this motor? (sorry if you posted that already-)

I build a few engines here and there, mostly more modern ones now.
but about 30+ through my years.
last being the Hayabusa motor pushing tad over 300 hp on low boost.

Check your bearings for ANY scoring or wear.
Cheaper to replace them then tear the motor back down because you chose to skip this step.
The case markings (Letters stamped into your cases) will be your guide for main bearing replacements if needed.
Take the markings on the case and the markings on the Crank, use the chart in your manual or pdf file and replace them per the CHART.
Use plasti-gauge to verify clearances and adjust them accordingly.

I prefer to use Ultra Grey to mate my cases, it IMHO is the best by far.
Again only my experiences///
Replace the push rod & output shaft Seals, etc etc/

As mentioned, pull the wrist pin's and check the small end for distortion/scoring as mentioned, if they look good typically the rest of the rod is fine.
Pull the rod caps and just verify there is no scoring hiding under there or wear in the bearings.

YOU HAVE THE MOTOR DOWN NOW- Use our experiences and DO IT ALL ONCE~

Check the bearings on the transmission shafts for roughness, clean them with kerosene or another solvent, then test them again see if it fixed the rough feel or not.
If they still feel rough or you see pitting REPLACE.
A trick to replace an Output Shaft bearing, have the old one pressed off/
Then put the OUTPUT shaft in the freezer for a few hours, then push the bearing over the cold shaft.
HURRY, time is not your friend~ If you dilly dally the bearing will become cold and shrink down on the shaft causing you to have to have it pressed on ...
Just work fast and it will slide right on.

Next-Check your Transmission gears, you will need snap ring pliers to pull them apart.
Keep it in order take your time and PAY ATTENTION/
You want to check the engagement dogs on the gears (in between them) for rounding off of the edges, especially 2nd gear (longest throw and most suspect to missed shifts and rounding of the engagement dogs).]
Check your Shifter forks for worn edges.

I use Copper coat spray for all my head gskts, spray let get tacky then install to cylinders then slap on head.

Torque Sequence is MOST important on re-assembly-
Typically you will start in the upper center bolt then move around outward and clockwise per the manual.
Tear down, just try to remember to use a cross pattern, like you are supposed to do while tightening your lug nuts.

Most of your quality Gasket sets I would not use a sealer on.
Your cheaper eBay sets, use the Ultra Grey as mentioned it will help keep the gskts from sticking to your cases and covers...
I like the Ultra Grey IMHO and Experience it is the EASIEST to clean off the cases and covers, and yet one of the BEST sealers on the market.

When you set up your valve clearances just use the method prescribed in the manual and a nice non- magnetic set of feeler gauges (brass).
Enjoy removing the cams a few times unless you get lucky and get them figured out the first go around-
Jot down the Range on the INT (intake) and EXH (exhaust) from the manual, then I write down the measurements and adjust accordingly.

I am sure I am missing something, I have alot on my plate right now dealing with some personal issues.
But, I will try and keep up with the post and help when I can.

GL-
Ron

Hey Ron,

Total NEEEEEEWB to spliting cases and gauging cranks and what not with plastigauge. You have a pic of how its supposed to be used by chance? i kinda understand the concept, but none of my various manuals SHOW it being done.

 

[Busafied]

I cannot find the pictures on this computer, they must be on my old one that died..

I need to grab the HDD out of it and install it in here so I can post the pictures.

The premise is simple-

You will need to know the tolerance of the bearing (service range, or limit), so that you may get the correct range (color) of plasti-gauge.
Once you have ythe Correct range, then you can proceed.
FIRST- clean all the oil from the crank, or rod which ever your checking, and the bearing halves.
Then :

a) cut a small piece of the plasti-gauge about 1/2", about the width of your bearings, just slightly narrower.
b) lay your crank in the case half (or rod on the crank upside down)
c) lay a piece of the plasti-gauge on the crank
d) then the top half of the case (or the bottom cap of the rod)
e) torque the main bolts (or rod bolts)
f) remove the case half (or rod cap)
g) read the plasti-gauge, using the gauge printed on the sleeve of paper the plasti-gauge comes in.

Now if you're in luck it will be within service range.

GL-
Ron

 

[Busafied]

ttt ...

 

[Steve]

Pete, you don't necessarily need a valve spring compressor tool to remove the valves and springs if you do it the "Aussie Way". ...

Not as dramatic, but you can do it my way. BassCliff has it posted on his 'little' site.

Hey Ron,

Total NEEEEEEWB to spliting cases and gauging cranks and what not with plastigauge. You have a pic of how its supposed to be used by chance? i kinda understand the concept, but none of my various manuals SHOW it being done.

Be patient, Kid, I can show you when I get home next week.

.

 

[Guest]

Looks like I hit the first expensive bit already!

When I first got my 450, the front drive sprocket was (in)conveniently loose, as in the nut not even finger tight, so had worn the splines on the inside of the sprocket and the outside of the drive shaft. I replaced just the sprocket back then which got me out of trouble for a while, but thought now it's apart I should do the drive shaft.

Anyway, got a quote for a NOS part from suziparts.com.au today, and it's $168.00 plus postage (ouch).

However, did a part number search on Google and have found Anderson Vintage Parts have it for $48.98 plus postage. This will probably end up being around $80 Australian, so about half the price and is also supposed to be a NOS part.

Anyone dealt with this mob before at all? Main concern of course is that they're in the USA and I'm over here in Oz...

 

[Guest]

Aaaah crap... just remembered the deadbeat section and had a look and guess what name popped up... thought it would be too good to be true!