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Where to begin?....noobster

  • Thread starter Thread starter SeanMora77
  • Start date Start date
S

SeanMora77

Guest
First of all, thanks for existing. I've had my 1981 GS850G since february... a bike that sat untouched for three years. Until I found this site I felt doomed. OK, Upon acquiring this bike I did as much research as I could as to the steps one should take before even attempting to start a bike that has sat for so long; cleaned carbs spotless, cleaned rust out of gas tank, changed oil, gapped plugs... etc. I re-assembled the bike, charged the battery, and low and behold it fired up rather quickly. In spite of the fact that i still hadnt transfered the title and got plates I indulged and romped around the neighborhood for about an hour, grinning ear to ear. Feeling triumphant, I parked it in the garage and went about starting it and letting it run for a couple minutes each day until i could get the money together to get it street legal. I began to have problems getting it started. The starter would turn, but the bike just would not start. If it didi start, it would run for a little while, Id shut it down and try to start it again and no dice. I thought the problem might be the ignition coils so I took them to a local mechanic who refused to test them, but reccomended that I try and snip a quarter inch off the spark plug cables and re-seat the spark plug caps which seemed like good advice until I did it, now the bike wont start at all. I thought the starter was fried because I could only hear a click in the relay until i tried to bump start it in second gear and miraculously the starter began to turn again, but to no avail. still not starting. I am the dictionary definition of a noob, but i learn quickly and am determined to do what it takes to get the wind in my hair again... "I have a volt meter too". Please help and thank you.
 
I'd start by checking the battery voltage. My 850 spins over very easily (as if the battery is good), even when there's too little voltage for a good spark. About an hour riding and several starts could be enough to kill a fully charged battery if the bike isn't charging. And the charging system is the most likely thing to be bad on a GS you just brought home. You can jump start it off a car, but make sure the car is not running. A car's charging system is powerful enough to fry a GS regulator.
 
This is the frustrating part, plenty of charge at the battery... 12.8 volts. At the positive connection on the coils I lose only one volt. I have a battery charger/tester on standby just in case.
 
It ran ,so be inspired to carry on! Post some pics, folks here like them and you will attract more admirers. Anyways, are you familiar with correct use of "choke" system. Cold start, activate "choke" fully, DO NOT touch throttle, press starter button. Petcock operation needs to be checked to ensure that it didn't reclog after your cleaning. Unplug fuel line to carbs, switch lever to "prime"spot, fuel should flow out (attempt to catch it), move lever to "on" or "res", flow should stop.
 
Welcome, and here is you mega welcome package as well, lots of good reading
Hi Mr. SeanMora77,

Let me dump a TON of information on you and share some GS lovin'. :D

I just stopped by to welcome you to the forum in my own, special way.
big_hi.gif


If there's anything you'd like to know about the Suzuki GS model bikes, and most others actually, you've come to the right place. There's a lot of knowledge and experience here in the community. Come on in and let me say "HOoooowwwDY!"....
hat1.gif


Here is your very own magical, mystical, mythical, mind-expanding "mega-welcome". Please take notice of the "Top 10 Common Issues", "Top 15 Tips For GS Happiness", the Carb Cleanup Series, and the Stator Papers. All of these tasks must be addressed in order to have a safe, reliable machine. This is what NOT to do: Top 10 Newbie Mistakes. Now let me roll out the welcome mat for you...

carpet.jpg


Please click here for your mega-welcome, chock full of tips, suggestions, links to vendors, and other information. Then feel free to visit my little BikeCliff website where I've been collecting the wisdom of this generous community. Don't forget, we like pictures! Not you, your bike! :D

Thanks for joining us. Keep us informed.


Thank you for your indulgence,

BassCliff
Click to expand...
 
Wow, thought I was close to the finish line but clearly haven't even started the race. I checked the petcock and aside from a bit of a tough turn, flow seems to be fine. Here is a little more info; I do not have a proper air filter, who ever owned the bike previously just wrapped gauze around the frame for the original filter... Also, one of the airbox boots look partly melted. Carbs are not original, but fit fine. Some of the wiring looks tampered with... I have Alot of work to do. Any and all advice is welcomed and appreciated.

1981 gs850g
 
SeanMora77 said:
This is the frustrating part, plenty of charge at the battery... 12.8 volts. At the positive connection on the coils I lose only one volt. I have a battery charger/tester on standby just in case.
Click to expand...

How old is the battery?

If the battery is good, I'd check for spark next. pull one of the wires off a plug and put a screwdriver in it. Make sure it is getting contact with the conductor in the plug cap. Hold the shaft of the screwdriver near the head (about like the spark plug gap) and try to start it. You should get at least a yellow spark, preferably blue. Check on from each coil, or check all 4 if you don't trust your plug wires. Keep your fingers away from the conductive part of the screwdriver, or you will find out the hard was if you have good spark.

Are you in a location where the weather has been cold since you rode it? (Please add this to you user profile so it shows in every post). If so, has the fuel tank been nearly empty? If so, you may have accumulated enough condensation in the tank to get water contamination. Drain the carbs, prime it and try to start. If you don't know already, get in the habit of parking the bike with a full tank. This makes less room for condensation to form, thus protecting the tank from rusting. And put some stabilizer in the fuel if it's going to be parked for more than a few weeks.
 
The battery is only a week old, I bought a new one after having the old one checked out. I live in Florida so no cold winters, however it did sit outside under a tarp for the last three years. It is now permanently at home in my garage. I will try the spark test you've suggested and post the results as soon as i can. THANK YOU
 
Yes, you should stabilize your fuel if you're not going to use up the gas in a couple of weeks. Further, you should go to pure-gas.org and see if there's a station offering ethanol-free gas near you (still use a stabilizer, but particularly in high-humidity areas ethanol-free is the way to go if possible). At idle, the pilot jets and idle screws are the channels for fuel, and they have very, very small openings. It doesn't take much varnish to plug them back up.

You say you cleaned the carbs spotless: did you fully disassemble and dip them? See the CV carb rebuild guide on BassCliff's site.

You say carbs are not original - do you know what they are? Opening them up fully will give you a chance to verify the jets are at least marked for the size that they should be.

Did you buy a proper air filter? If not, you should get one. They're still available new OEM (though kinda pricey), or you can check to see if an aftermarket like a K&N is available (just the OEM replacement filter - NOT PODS, at least not yet - get a good base-line first before mod-ing). The K&N might flow a bit much air and cause slight lean running, but will be better than gauze for sure.

Airbox boots also still show as available new.

The CV carbs are extremely sensitive to mixture issues and air leaks. If the boots between the carbs and the head are cracking or, more likely, if the O-rings sealing them to the head are brittle and cracked, your motor will suck un-fueled air in and run very lean, if at all.

Hard cold starting is frequently attributed to tight valves, and as it happens valve adjustment is one of the most frequently overlooked maintenance items on GSes.

Be certain you put the plug wires back in the correct places. Use your DMM to check your coil secondaries: measuring from cap to cap from 1 to 4 or 2 to 3 should show about 30-35k ohms with stock caps (~10k each + ~14k for the coil itself, wires should be negligible), or about 20-25k ohms with NGKs. Also check the voltage at the orange/white wires going to the coils against the battery ground.

Florida is a long state. Whereabouts in the state are you? Maybe there's a member nearby who could take a look?
 
SeanMora77 said:
This is the frustrating part, plenty of charge at the battery... 12.8 volts. At the positive connection on the coils I lose only one volt. I have a battery charger/tester on standby just in case.
Click to expand...
12.8 volts is OK when it's just sitting there, what is it when you are cranking the engine? If it goes below 11 volts or so, the battery is no good.

Losing one volt at the coils? Measure that again when the bike is running. If it's still "only one volt", you will be fine. If it's more than that, you will need to clean some connections. You will need to clean them anyway, you will just be forced to do them.

Be careful with that charger/tester. Some of them will put out extra voltage when in "charge" or "boost" mode. That extra voltage can easily overwhelm the regulator on the bike and turn it into a dandy paper weight.


SeanMora77 said:
Wow, thought I was close to the finish line but clearly haven't even started the race.
Click to expand...
Son, you have barely made it from the parking lot into the stadium.
Next, you will get changed, then do some warm-ups, then line up for the race.
You don't even know where the finish line is at this point. :p


SeanMora77 said:
Carbs are not original, but fit fine.
Click to expand...
That part scares me. What is in there? What makes you think they are not original?

.
 
The carbs are Mikuni, im guessing from a later model suzuki... trying to post pics but having a hard time with it. I cleaned the carbs one at a time, sprayed carb cleaner in a mason jar and soaked the jets for an hour or more, sprayed cleaner through all orifices but did not fully dismantle carbs from each other. It was the best I could do with what advice I found online. I viewed the carb cleaning tutorial in the welcome package and see that I did not clean them as thoroughly as I could have. Also didnt adjust floats to proper height... I used the very top of the float as opposed to the top of the rounded portion as I saw in the tutorial. Crazy thing is, in spite of all that this bike ran like a scalded dog for the brief run I did around my neigborhood. I am now<"well, have been" on a mission. I can just imagine how this thing will perform when all procedures have been meted out. Its all I think about. That being said, my budget is pretty skimpy being unemployed so things will move slowly for awhile. Thanks again!!!
 
@ Steve-o, I know the carbs are not original because the bike used to belong to my father in law, who in turn gave it to another son in law several years ago. The guy he gave it to tore the original carbs apart and lost several parts, brought the bike back to my father in law and it sat for another couple years, until my brother in law found the replacement carbs that sit in it to this day. I still have the original carbs in my garage, but like I said, there are many missing parts. Sadly, I don't want to believe it, but I think I may have fried something by using the boost feature on the charger. The old battery was... old and crappy. I had to use the 50 amp boost on the charger to get it to start on a few occasions. The starter only works sporadically now and I got that sinking feeling why.... I know you must be cringing reading all this, but hey, thats why im here. I want to do this right, up until this point Ive only had the advice of shade tree mechanics and generic websites. I deeply appreciate any knowledge you bestow on me, humbly. I take any ribbing with a grain of salt," I probably deserve it".
 
2A tops charging with a motorcycle battery (off the bike). half of one amp is better.

BassCliff's site contains a tutorial for posting images using a Photobucket account I think. Absent an external site, if you add pics to albums in your profile, you can right-click and "copy image URL", then use those with the little image button, as so:

picture.php


Someone will now point out an even easier way to post pics I'm sure. You can attach pics, but the size of the file is limited and you can only attach one per post.
 
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these are the replacement carbs

these are the replacement carbs

picture.php
 
when I bought the new battery I charged it @2 amps for an hour and a half. Havent used the boost since I bought it.
 
I see this all the time and it's quite sad...Your problems originated from starting the idling the bike every so often. At idle most bikes don't charge the battery but instead drain it. After so many cranks and drains without charging it the battery will be too dead to start. Then you try to "fix" it by any method other than charging the battery and things get in a mess.
 
SeanMora77 said:
@ Steve-o, ...
Click to expand...
Sorry, don't know that guy. I am "Steve", not "Steve-o". :mad:


SeanMora77 said:
I take any ribbing with a grain of salt," I probably deserve it".
Click to expand...

The salt air in your (slightly regrettable) location should be enough. :o

Now that you know that GSR exists for your benefit (and a few others, too), sit back, relax, read up on what interests you and don't be afraid to ask questions. You will soon find that it is MUCH cheaper to ask a question, then do something once, than it is to blunder through, trying several things until you stumble upon something that might work.

Yeah, the booster probably fried your charging system. There are some tests that we call "the stator papers" that will help you track down any problems. I doubt you would have to replace the stator because of that mishap, but the Rectifier/Regulator (R/R) is probably gone. Good news is that replacements can be found for less than $40 that are much better than the stock unit.

Carbs should probably be cleaned properly and also be treated to a new set of o-rings. The o-ring set should be accompanied by o-rings for the intake boots and stainless bolts to hold the boots to the engine. All that can be had for less than $25. Unfortunately, the price of Berryman's Carb Cleaner Dip has just gone up at Auto Zone. Used to be about $22, I just saw it for $28. Still a bargain, as it lasts a long time. I am still using what's left in the can I bought about seven years ago. It's not enough to do a carb, but I put small parts in there. (I have since gotten two more cans that I use for carbs.)

Oh, just because the carbs are not original to the bike does not mean that they are wrong. Several of my bikes are wearing carbs that were on another bike when they left Japan over 30 years ago, but they are at least the "right" carbs. Get some pictures of your carbs, we will be able to tell you whether to work on the carbs you have or if you should be shopping for some.

.
 
If you have a look here:

http://members.dslextreme.com/users/bikecliff/images/carbspec_float_height.html

You'll find a table with some information about carbs from various GS models. BS32SS carbs were used on quite a few models. They vary mostly in the jetting and spacing. When you tear down the carbs for a complete cleaning, you should also check the markings on the jets to be certain they are the correct ones for your model.

Your bike appears to be an 850GL by the way: L being the "cruiser" model as demonstrated by the leading axle fork, low profile (and smaller) tank, and chromed fenders. Looks like the bars have already been swapped out for Daytonas.

Mr. Posplayer also has posted this "quick test" for the battery and charging system (after test #2 requires the bike to be running). Without a running bike you can only do the static tests of the stator papers, though that's still important testing to do.

http://www.thegsresources.com/_forum/showthread.php?p=1272192#post1272192
 
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