Which loctite

[Suzuki_Don]

I need to install the kickstart mechanism in the lower crankcase half before I assemble both halves. There are two countersunk 6mm screws that will go on the inside of the case, if they come loose I will have to split the cases again. I have a low strength Loctite 222 (purple) would this work or not strong enough. I also have a Loctite 243 medium strength, would this one be too hard and damage the aluminium thread in the case as it is removed next stripdown.
Opinions please? And please don't tell me what color code Loctite I should use as the places I frequent do not have the Loctite color coded. So names on Loctite container please , e.g. 243, 290,609, etc.
Thanks for any contributions.

 

[reddirtrider]

I tend to do exactly what the manual states. Does it call for any thread lock? If it does I'd go with the red - high strength. I think it's 271, but not sure if that number changes dependant on the bottle size. In any case there is a red band on the bottle, not blue or green.

 

[Suzuki_Don]

Yes, RED. The manual does call for THREAD LOCK CEMENT.
Thanks for the reply.

 

[reddirtrider]

No problemo Don. I can't sleep. I need to get the wheels polished and painted before tomorrow so I can get the tires mounted. Got a deadline that is approaching fast and I can't miss it.

 

[Suzuki_Don]

No problemo Don. I can't sleep. I need to get the wheels polished and painted before tomorrow so I can get the tires mounted. Got a deadline that is approaching fast and I can't miss it.

Keep going, Don't weaken. Focus on the goal ahead. It can be achieved.

 

[Nessism]

Did you check the service manual? Not sure if those exact screws are listed but many are. BTW, when putting together an engine recently I choose to use the high temp, medium strength, green thread lock from 3 bond for similar screws in my engine. I'm pretty sure the red stuff is overkill for that application.

 

[rcp]

Secret goo decoder ring

Secret goo decoder ring

Your Locktite 243 (Blue, removeable, medium strength) is what I'd recommend. If it's not meant to be almost-permanent, I wouldn't use the 271 or 262 (Red, permanent, high-strength, needs heat for removal).

Some background info:

Threebond Product Numbers:
http://www.threebond.co.jp/en/product/number/index.html

I believe all the Suzuki Goo numbers are Threebond, unfortunately not all the numbers you'll encounter in the manual are present on those pages.

Loctite lightweight catalog:
http://www.loctiteproducts.com/common/graphics/upload/all/loctite_product_catalog.pdf


Permatex Auto catalog:
http://www.permatex.com/resource_auto_lit.htm

More info in Chapter 7, "Locking Devices" of Carrol Smith's "Nuts, Bolts, Fasteners and Plumbing Handbook":

http://tinyurl.com/addsvj
or
<http://books.google.ca/books?id=A81HmmRCN7YC&pg=PA127&lpg=PA127&dq=%22better+racing+through+chemistry%22&source=bl&ots=ZvlJFFzEQt&sig=k2huzka_2a3VDsZmwBcCh_omYIM&hl=en&ei=vI26SZTqK43QMtez9acI&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=5&ct=result>


- Richard

 

[reddirtrider]

How many times do you plan on splitting the cases to remove those bolts? Myself, I use red for anything internal to the cases. I guess it's whatever trips your trigger.

 

[Matchless]

Don,
The green Loctite is 290 and is used for holding shafts and bearings. I used it to stop my rotor from coming loose on the crank after a while. I was told that I may need quite a bit of heat to get the rotor off again.

 

[hampshirehog]

There seems to be a different colour system in use across the world . In the UK it's:

Blue 242 - general locking (may not hold a bolt that's on something spinning the wrong way but fine for static pieces). OK for up to around 150 degrees Centigrade (I think).

Red 271- a fair bit more of a lock than blue and suitable for use on spinning parts eg starter clutches, bearings etc and in a high temperature spot. Heat helps with removal (though not essential - just use common sense if it's an alloy or otherwise fragile part).

Green 290 - in between the 2 above but is penetrating hence can be used on something that has come loose and isn't being taken to bits. Goes brittle (like glass) with age though and can be a b*gger to undo.

Inside the motor I use red - I've had the blue (presumably) melt and disappear before.

 

[Suzuki_Don]

Thanks for the replies guys. These two particular screws are inside the crankcase and covered by engine oil. So I don't know what temp. they would get up to.
ED: What do you mean by, "is it listed in the manual". It says in the manual to use "thread locking cement" on these two screws. They actually hold a stop plate to limit the return of the kick start.
Does anyone know what color and strength the 243 Loctite is? Is it high temp.?
Thanks.

 

[Suzuki_Don]

There seems to be a different colour system in use across the world . In the UK it's:

Blue 242 - general locking (may not hold a bolt that's on something spinning the wrong way but fine for static pieces). OK for up to around 150 degrees Centigrade (I think).

Red 271- a fair bit more of a lock than blue and suitable for use on spinning parts eg starter clutches, bearings etc and in a high temperature spot. Heat helps with removal (though not essential - just use common sense if it's an alloy or otherwise fragile part).

Green 290 - in between the 2 above but is penetrating hence can be used on something that has come loose and isn't being taken to bits. Goes brittle (like glass) with age though and can be a b*gger to undo.

Inside the motor I use red - I've had the blue (presumably) melt and disappear before.

Do you konw where 222 fits into the scheme of things. I believe it is low strength for things like carb screws. Probably not ideal for 6mm screws in high temp. oil environment.

 

[Nessism]

Thanks for the replies guys. These two particular screws are inside the crankcase and covered by engine oil. So I don't know what temp. they would get up to.
ED: What do you mean by, "is it listed in the manual". It says in the manual to use "thread locking cement" on these two screws. They actually hold a stop plate to limit the return of the kick start.
Does anyone know what color and strength the 243 Loctite is? Is it high temp.?
Thanks.

The Suzuki service manual calls out the various thread lock materials by part number.
- Threebond 1342- a low strength locker similar to Loctite blue.
- Threebond 1333B- a medium strength locker (used on most of the internal screws like those holding the transmission plates bearing retaining plates, etc.)
-Threebond 1332B - super high strength (for use on the rotor bolt and starter clutch bolts).

I use the 1360F on most screws inside my 1000 engine, except for the rotor screw which got Red Loctite. 1360 is medium strength, high heat. I figured this is good for inside the engine.

Edit: found this info on the internet...

All of ThreeBond's thread locks inhibit the development of rust, leaks corrosion, and are not affected by oils, chemicals, salt water, various gases or organic solvents. ThreeBond 1342 is equivalent to Loctite 222, ThreeBond 1333B is equivalent to Loctite 242.

Not sure what the 1332B is similar to, but I think it's the 262.

 

[Suzuki_Don]

Thanks Ed. Great information. I will look around for a ThreeBond supplier here.

 

[hampshirehog]

Just read your post again and spotted it was the purple loctite. Where've you been hiding that - I haven't seen anyone use it for donkey's years?

As you guessed it sits lower in the torque setting than blue and was used for things like throttle adjusters etc, where you would maybe 'break' the lock using a screwdriver or small spanner. From memory - and we're going way back now - I seem to remember it broke down in hot (= warm?) oil - much quicker than the blue. Definitely not one to use inside an engine.

 

[Suzuki_Don]

Just read your post again and spotted it was the purple loctite. Where've you been hiding that - I haven't seen anyone use it for donkey's years?

As you guessed it sits lower in the torque setting than blue and was used for things like throttle adjusters etc, where you would maybe 'break' the lock using a screwdriver or small spanner. From memory - and we're going way back now - I seem to remember it broke down in hot (= warm?) oil - much quicker than the blue. Definitely not one to use inside an engine.

Ok thanks. I think I will go with the 243. Cheers.

 

[rcp]

Does anyone know what color and strength the 243 Loctite is? Is it high temp.?
Thanks.

243 is blue, medium strength, with better oil resistance than 242. It is not as high temp as red, but is fine in the crankcase.

- Richard

 

[Suzuki_Don]

243 is blue, medium strength, with better oil resistance than 242. It is not as high temp as red, but is fine in the crankcase.

- Richard

Thanks Richard

 

[Matchless]

Here the specs for 243
http://www.loctite.sg/sea/content_data/93815_243EN.pdf

 

[Nessism]

Here the specs for 243
http://www.loctite.sg/sea/content_data/93815_243EN.pdf

If you look at the temperature chart, the strength of 243 goes down significantly when exposed to typical temps that are common inside an engine - 100 - 150 C. My preference is to use Threebond 1360F since it's for high temp applications.