Why Do We Need A Battery

[850 Combat]

Nortons had different systems, what works for them won't necessarily work for us. And a snow machine designed to have no battery is different yet again.

Agreed. the electrical systems are different, but they are there for the same purpose. I don't think my RD400, or XT250 are very fussy about their batteries either, now that I consider it.

 

[still_bluenoser]

NiCad batterys don't charge like liquid cell batterys. Try it and see.

Well, technically they do. They just dont like too high a rate of charge, and once they reach their max charge they need to stop.

Thermal runnaway isn't pretty

 

[Graham]

I know they use big NiCads on airplanes just fine, jets, piston poppers, and turboprops. Some of the turboprops will completely drain the NiCad in about three start attempts, they get fully recharged in a minute or two once one engine is running, so if it is done correctly in a properly designed system NiCads can work. These batteries last many years. The trick will be getting the bike's system to act like it was designed correctly.
The little RC NiCads are 1.2 volts per cell, ten of them in series would make a 12 volt battery pack. Eleven of them would be 13.2 volts, closer to what the charging system runs at, would this work better than ten of them? Would some resistors or a rheostat in line with the batteries better control the voltage? Maybe an adjustable voltage divider to adjust the voltage at the sense wire of a Honda regulator? Would a separate additional regulator need to be designed to apply just the right voltage to the battery? Need a little help from our electrical engineer buddies. How would one determine what capacity each cell should be? Small ones would be easier to put on the bike, under the seat or in the tail or someplace.
The 550/560 hybrid clone cafe racer will be needing something like this.

Forget the NiCads and get a 4LBS battery it is only 3.4 lbs. Unhook the starter and put a relay on your oil pressure switch to work all the lighting. The lights will be off for starting (more power to coils) and will only come when you have oil pressure and the motor is running. If you don?t use the lights change the regulator to a non-shunt reg. Shunt regulators don?t work good without a good load on them. This is the cheapest and simplest way to lower battery size and weight.

http://www.buyatvsonline.com/powerssonic-ytx4lbs-atv-scooter-motorcycle-battery-p-8975.html

To get rid of the battery you will need a magneto system with a regulator for lighting. A few old 70s dirt bikes that kind of system but you will still have to mod it to fit in place of your stator.

Ether way should work you right leg muscle.

 

[tkent02]

Forget the NiCads and get a 4LBS battery it is only 3.4 lbs. Unhook the starter and put a relay on your oil pressure switch to work all the lighting. The lights will be off for starting (more power to coils) and will only come when you have oil pressure and the motor is running.

Don't like your oil pressure switch idea for the lights, so one night when I'm blasting around and for some reason lose oil pressure the headlights go out? No, thanks. Been there, done that, didn't like it much. Had an old Yamaha that would burn out a headlight once in a while at high RPM. When you feel the tires hit gravel but you can't see which side of the road you are on, it's not a good feeling.
The bike already has a switch for the lights, don't need another. Anyway this 4LBS battery would work, just looking for something different, and smaller. Not sure but I think the Compufire regulator could work well with NiCads, as it regulates by shutting off the power from the stator completely, so no overcharging the batteries. Can't hurt to give it a try.

 

[Adler]

So today I was rooting around my basement and I came across this...

http://www.homesecuritystore.com/p-...=10054&zmam=55691497&zmas=1&zmac=4&zmap=BD412

It resparked my interest in this subject.

Do you guys think I could just ziptie this cute little thing into the bike hook it up and forget about it? or will it cause an explosion, dismemberment, decapitation, castration or otherwise?

 

[sschering]

You guys think a little 12 volt NiCad pack would work? Something like the electric RC cars and airplanes use?

One of the XS 650 guys did that..
He removed the starter and hid a RC Car battery in the starter compartment..
XS-650's require a battery to provide 12v to the alternator field.. No battery=no power on those bikes.

I doubt it would last long in there due to heat and vibration..

 

[Steve]

Please remind me ... why do you want to lose the battery?

If it's for size limitations due to moving other stuff around, OK, not much we can do about that.

If it's to save weight, how desparate are you to trim OUNCES?

The battery that Graham mentioned is 3.4 pounds. I just looke up the X-2 Extreme battery at Batteries Plus (That's what I have in my bikes.) It's a sealed AGM battery that can be run in any position except upside-down, and has more capacity than a stock battery. They claim it weighs 9.4 pounds. A whopping 6 pound difference. Come on, is 6 pounds really that much to worry about?

Personally, I feel that an extra 6 pounds of battery will add a LOT of convenience to everyday riding, but, then, maybe this bike isn't for everyday riding. :-k

.

 

[Adler]

Please remind me ... why do you want to lose the battery?

If it's for size limitations due to moving other stuff around, OK, not much we can do about that.

If it's to save weight, how desparate are you to trim OUNCES?

The battery that Graham mentioned is 3.4 pounds. I just looke up the X-2 Extreme battery at Batteries Plus (That's what I have in my bikes.) It's a sealed AGM battery that can be run in any position except upside-down, and has more capacity than a stock battery. They claim it weighs 9.4 pounds. A whopping 6 pound difference. Come on, is 6 pounds really that much to worry about?

Personally, I feel that an extra 6 pounds of battery will add a LOT of convenience to everyday riding, but, then, maybe this bike isn't for everyday riding. :-k

.

What huge convenience gains are you referring to? Is kickstarting really that much of a hassle?!

Its not the space nor is it the weight. Its the convenience.It is a pain in the butt for me to get to any dealer who sells batteries for a reasonable price. Canadian tire sells them but charges a whopping $80 for them. If I dont actually need the battery... Why bother? At the very least I want options for other cheap batteries.

Also I feel it is of huge interest to anyone who IS moving stuff around and I do have plans for the space I would save.

 

[earlfor]

What huge convenience gains are you referring to? Is kickstarting really that much of a hassle?!

Its not the space nor is it the weight. Its the convenience.It is a pain in the butt for me to get to any dealer who sells batteries for a reasonable price. Canadian tire sells them but charges a whopping $80 for them. If I dont actually need the battery... Why bother? At the very least I want options for other cheap batteries.

Also I feel it is of huge interest to anyone who IS moving stuff around and I do have plans for the space I would save.

Ahhh, its that horrible $80 for a battery every couple of years that is the motivation. Should have known.

Earl

 

[Adler]

Ahhh, its that horrible $80 for a battery every couple of years that is the motivation. Should have known.

Earl

I am so poor I aspire to be a beggar one day.

But enough about me... will it blend?

 

[trippivot]

battery! we don't need no stinking battery. - or do we?

battery! we don't need no stinking battery. - or do we?

not all bikes need a battery but there are many that will not run without one..

having a 3 phase AC dynamo and all DC onboard systems presents a unique set of challenges.

so how do we get a nice even DC power without a battery.

1. use 1 leg of the AC dynamo and a diode??
devising a "HALF WAVE" balanced system where maximum output is equal to the ign and all lights including the brake lights when used....
you'll only get 6 volts. so change all the light bulbs on the bike and find a 6V igntion system.

2. use 2 AC legs of the dynamo and a 4 diode pack - bingo!! called a "FULL WAVE" 12 volts above idle and 20 volts at running RPM. get a volkswagen regulator and mount it after the diode pack. hook a capacitor to that and run the harness from the other side of the cap.. be prepared cause it is AMF harley that runs stuff like this.

3.magneto for ignition and do not run any DC lights- or possibly a total custom AC lighting coil and mounts for necessary equipment.

4. it is easier to have a battery and no charging system on any GS.

 

[earlfor]

not all bikes need a battery but there are many that will not run without one..

having a 3 phase AC dynamo and all DC onboard systems presents a unique set of challenges.

so how do we get a nice even DC power without a battery.

1. use 1 leg of the AC dynamo and a diode??
devising a "HALF WAVE" balanced system where maximum output is equal to the ign and all lights including the brake lights when used....
you'll only get 6 volts. so change all the light bulbs on the bike and find a 6V igntion system.

2. use 2 AC legs of the dynamo and a 4 diode pack - bingo!! called a "FULL WAVE" 12 volts above idle and 20 volts at running RPM. get a volkswagen regulator and mount it after the diode pack. hook a capacitor to that and run the harness from the other side of the cap.. be prepared cause it is AMF harley that runs stuff like this.

3.magneto for ignition and do not run any DC lights- or possibly a total custom AC lighting coil and mounts for necessary equipment.

4. it is easier to have a battery and no charging system on any GS.

I think the most simple, cheapest and dependable choice is to buy a good battery and keep all the charging system connections clean. Works rather well actually.

Earl

 

[Guest]

Check out Wal Mart for batteries much cheaper than $80. Hard to beat online prices, actually, but the shipping price to Canada might defeat the purpose. Also, not sure the cheaper brands will last more than a couple years, esp. if they are non-AGM. Having said all that, the premise of your experiment is certainly interesting.

 

[kochic]

you can put a capacitor if you remove the battery and the starter.
Put one rated 25v and up, you can fit one of any voltage higher than 17v just to be sure to not fry the capacitor.
I will start with a 4800 mocrofarad and work from there.If at idle your headlight is yellow or pulsating put a higher number, ex 5500 microfarad.
I usually remove the battery and starter on my bike and keep only the kickstarter.
when i do this i remove all the starting system and put a capacitor where the battery hook up.Leave the r-r and the charging system stock except for the capacitor.
The capacitor work like a filter and replace the battery.
Never have any problem with this set up, last time it was a drz440 supermoto with only the kickstarter.I run like this 2 years before reputting everything back to stock, to sell it.
The capacitor worth around 2-3$, its cheap.
the only thing to watch is to put the capacitor in a "dry" place, they dont like water.
i will check here i may have 2 25v 5??? microfarad radial capacitors here.
Marc

 

[tkent02]

you can put a capacitor if you remove the battery and the starter.

Never have any problem with this set up, last time it was a drz440 supermoto with only the kickstarter.

Marc, have you done this on a Suzuki GS? I would have thought the kick start would not develop enough RPM for the stator to generate enough power to run the ignition without a little bit of a battery.

 

[kochic]

No,
the drz has a "battery " ignition, i was easier to start with the capacitor than the battery.
The voltage is on the limit of the r-r with a capacitor.
I still have a kz440 with a capacitor here.
the ignition is a points system, work fine.I dont have a gs with a kickstarter here to give it a try.why suzuki dosent leave the kick on a 1000???
The only thing i would check on a old gs is to upgrade the r-r with a newer unit.just like the r1 one i have on my bike.
Marc

 

[landshark]

If your reasons was to save weight and space try looking up

http://www.antigravitybatteries.com/

My mate just got one and it is pretty small.

 

[gmoore]

So today I was rooting around my basement and I came across this...

http://www.homesecuritystore.com/p-...=10054&zmam=55691497&zmas=1&zmac=4&zmap=BD412

It resparked my interest in this subject.

Do you guys think I could just ziptie this cute little thing into the bike hook it up and forget about it? or will it cause an explosion, dismemberment, decapitation, castration or otherwise?

sorry to resurrect an old thread but I thought it better than starting a new one about the same subject.

I'm customizing a 1979 GS 750 and am looking to loose the big battery and the starter as well. I was wondering if this battery worked, it's cheap and small which is what I'm looking for!

Also, the Honda R/R mod should work fine with the starter delete I asume, am I correct?

What I gather in this thread is that without the starter I really dont need much of a battery to maintain the electrical system since it is the biggest draw of electricity because there is no alternator/stator supplying power during a start, therefore drawing on the battery.

I also plan on going to electronic ignition, how would this effect the retrofitted Ignition? would I need more power from the the battery than the one mentioned above or should the stator be able to provide the necessary power? I asume it would be fine?

thanks a lot!

 

[Adler]

sorry to resurrect an old thread but I thought it better than starting a new one about the same subject.

I'm customizing a 1979 GS 750 and am looking to loose the big battery and the starter as well. I was wondering if this battery worked, it's cheap and small which is what I'm looking for!

Also, the Honda R/R mod should work fine with the starter delete I asume, am I correct?

What I gather in this thread is that without the starter I really dont need much of a battery to maintain the electrical system since it is the biggest draw of electricity because there is no alternator/stator supplying power during a start, therefore drawing on the battery.

I also plan on going to electronic ignition, how would this effect the retrofitted Ignition? would I need more power from the the battery than the one mentioned above or should the stator be able to provide the necessary power? I asume it would be fine?

thanks a lot!

The battery I found ended up being dead so I didn't get to test with it. I did, however, switch to a capacitor setup. It still has some kinks but it does work.

Here is the newer thread about it...
http://www.thegsresources.com/_forum/showthread.php?t=179724

 

[gmoore]

The battery I found ended up being dead so I didn't get to test with it. I did, however, switch to a capacitor setup. It still has some kinks but it does work.

Here is the newer thread about it...
http://www.thegsresources.com/_forum/showthread.php?t=179724

Hmmmm, I think I would like to stay with a small battery rather than a capacitor setup. It seems more plug and play to me?

has anyone here deleted the starter & moved to a significantly smaller battery successfully? It seems pretty simple and totally doable.