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Why Would Airbox Boots slide off Carbs

cowboyup3371

cowboyup3371

Forum Guru
Past Site Supporter
I'm having an issue with my airbox that I'm not sure how to fix. This problem started in April after moving out here and I've tried about everything to fix it with no success. Even Steve and Josh are puzzled as to why and have suggested I had the wrong airbox manifold. After buying a replacement from EBay and reviewing the imprinted stock numbers, I determined that in fact I do have the correct manifold. So, let me start this question by providing some history. Please refer to the below fiche picture of my box as I explain​


2116_12.gif


2116_27.gif

When I first bought my bike in April 2010, my airbox was not fully complete but still did the job and was not attached to the carbs. It was missing the actual boot clamps as well as the breather hose and snorkel on top of the manifold (part #21) as well as the frame bracket where screw 19 and washer 20 go into (see the tab below the right hand seat holder tab in the second picture above). I dealt with the boot clamps by purchasing regular hose clamps from Lowes or OReillys (don't remember which) and using the frame mount that screw number 15 uses to go into the bracket on the side of the metal air box. This worked well until last year when I busted that frame mount and used a p-clamp for the time being. The boots on that airbox were old but still in good shape.​


Fast forward to December 2011. I decided I wanted a complete airbox manifold to connect the breather to as well as fix the frame mount. I found the manifold on EBay and bought new airbox boots from Boulevard Suzuki. This manifold came with the stock boot clamps and I installed them in March of this year before moving out here. It also came with the top frame bracket (screw 19) to mount properly.​

When I arrived in Ohio, Josh and I reconnected everything and noticed the frame bracket did not line up with the holes in the frame. We also realized the airbox when properly set in place would slide completely off the #1 carb, partially off #2, and stay on numbers 3 and 4 without any problem. Clamps were completely tight so there was no reason why any of them should have slid off. Steve also looked at it thinking the engine was rotated out of whack and we tried to readjust it with no success.​

So where I stand is, brand new airbox boots and brackets in all the right places. However, the airbox manifold slides completely off the number 1 carb ever so slowly. Although the bike has ran for the last week with no major issues, I noticed after fixing the frame mount on the side that if I tighten everything correctly, it slides off of number 1 ever so slowly. I left the rear of the airbox unattached from the frame and although the side did not come off, the weight at the rear pulled everything down from the top.​

Boots are on correctly, tightened down very tightly, and yet these new boots are sliding off. I'm tempted to not screw things back to the frame but maybe fashion up some wire hangers for now but I would rather this be done correctly. Does anyone have any ideas why the number 1 airbox boot would slide off it's carb? Any ideas how to fix it?​

A last resort is the option of going to pods but I'm leery on that for now for many reasons, not the least of which is the cost. I can do it but not ready right now.​

Thanks all​
 
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Looking at the fiche again, I don't have the spacer (#18 in the airbox picture) for the side of the airbox. How much will that stop the twisting motion if I find a replacement?
 
Looking at that fiche, I'm thinking that "spacer" is really just the solid center of the rubber bushing, much like the gas tank mounts.

Can't tell for sure, but that's what it looks like to me. :o

.
 
It looks to me that "spacer" should be a piece of aluminum tubing, through which the mounting bolt should pass. Without it, the bolt could compress the bushing. Would it compress it enough to pull the airbox out of place? I don't know, but it couldn't hurt to start there.

Is there ANY chance (heaven forbid) the frame or subframe is twisted?
 
I have almost the same problem. The front of my manifold is concave enough so that after much struggling and wiggling I can get all 4 carbs in the boots, and tighten the clamps but as soon as I try to tighten the clamps on the engine intake boots #2 and #3 carbs slide right out of their air intake boots. I also have the problem of stretched OEM clamps (I can tighten them as far as they go and still easily slide em off), so today I was going to really clamp em down with some SS hose clamps.
I too have considered pods but the bike runs great and I don't want to lose that.
I should mention that I don't have a stock airbox, just a round filter attached to the air intake manifold where the air box should be. Damn PO!
I have an issue where the bike has trouble idling under 1500 RPM unless it's hot, and sometimes hangs at 2000+RPM. I'm sure it's an air leak causing it because when the clamps do hold for the first couple minutes after clamping them, it idles great even from a cold start.
That is until #2 and #3 slide out of their boots.


Tank
 
The plastic on the box has probably took a set with some concavity to it. Take a look and see if its dished back a bit. To reset it, GENTLY heat it up and use a hammer handle to push the wall of the box back out and hold it there while it cools. This will allow the boots to be "pushed" forward into the carbs rather than have them stretched and eventually being wiggle off from the "pull" on them. New clamps will help too because yes they too do stretch after a while.
 
That's a good idea that I haven't thought of yet. I was actually using a broken broom handle end to push the middle of the box forward, and keep it there while I clamped the boots down.
Yet another unexpected use for my heat gun!

Thanks!


Tank
 
gently and from a distance!!! take your time till it gets pliable again. Maybe have a 5 gallon bucket of water handy and as you hold the wall forward, dunk it to set the plastic back up faster.
 
Thanks but we've already looked at how my airbox is formed and it doesn't look warped at all and definitely doesn't have enough size in it to be heated too much.

I'll try out the idea of putting extra weight behind it but getting it on isn't the issue - it's the staying on that is presenting the problem.
 
If you overtighten the clamps they will slip off the carbs. You only need to tighten them enough to make a seal. It might be as simple as that.
 
FiremanBob said:
If you overtighten the clamps they will slip off the carbs. You only need to tighten them enough to make a seal. It might be as simple as that.
Click to expand...

In my case #1 and #4 stay on, but with the clamps tightened all the way down, I can still move them by hand without much force.

I got new clamps today though so It wont be an issue much longer.



Tank
 
Scott,

My method...

With the airbox in place but the mounting screws removed, the carbs get stuffed between the carb boots and airbox boots.

Shove the airbox boots onto the back side of the carbs and tighten down the clamps. You want full engagement of the boots onto the carbs before tightening the clamps.

Next, shove both the airbox and carbs together into the carb boots in front.

Lift up on the airbox/carb assembly and install the airbox to frame screws

Last step is the tighten the carb boot clamps in front of the carbs

It's somewhat normal to have to force the airbox/carbs into position to get the airbox to frame bolts in place. If things just won't line up then either the airbox is distorted or maybe the frame mounting tabs are off position in some way. If this is the case than I'd consider trying Chucks suggestion, or consider using a shim of some sort or fashion a new bracket.

It's a little hard to see the actual condition but usually there is a way to make these things work.

Hope this helps
 
As Ed stated, the order in which you install each part matters. On my GS, the last thing I did was bolt the airbox to the frame. I verified fitment of everything else first. If it stays on when the box is not bolted on, but slips off when you finally bolt the box to the frame, you have issues at that point.
 
koolaid_kid said:
As Ed stated, the order in which you install each part matters. On my GS, the last thing I did was bolt the airbox to the frame. I verified fitment of everything else first. If it stays on when the box is not bolted on, but slips off when you finally bolt the box to the frame, you have issues at that point.
Click to expand...

You hit my problem on the head and I can't seem to figure out what's causing it. But I'll keep trying it.
 
This may not be relevant, but rubber does shrink. Is it possible that two of your boots have simply lost the length, stretch and yield they had when they were new?

On my tw200 ('98, and I'm sure this newish Yamaha rubber is inferior in every way to the oldish Suzuki rubber....), I fought with this connection for a long time before finding that it's a known problem with that particular bike. In the years since was new, it has shrunk, literally, almost 1/2 an inch in length over about three total, and now just barely manages to connect. It's not so much of a problem with only one lung, however.

S.
 
I solved that problem on my bike-550T

I solved that problem on my bike-550T

cowboyup3371 said:
I'll try out the idea of putting extra weight behind it but getting it on isn't the issue - it's the staying on that is presenting the problem.
Click to expand...
When mine kept sliding off, it was because I greased them to make it easy to get them on.
So I tried cleaning them up. That worked.
It took some time to master the technique of getting the carbs in and out, on that bike.
 
silverhorse47 said:
This may not be relevant, but rubber does shrink. Is it possible that two of your boots have simply lost the length, stretch and yield they had when they were new?

On my tw200 ('98, and I'm sure this newish Yamaha rubber is inferior in every way to the oldish Suzuki rubber....), I fought with this connection for a long time before finding that it's a known problem with that particular bike. In the years since was new, it has shrunk, literally, almost 1/2 an inch in length over about three total, and now just barely manages to connect. It's not so much of a problem with only one lung, however.

S.
Click to expand...

Thanks. I'm using brand new rubber.

Buffalo Bill said:
When mine kept sliding off, it was because I greased them to make it easy to get them on.
So I tried cleaning them up. That worked.
It took some time to master the technique of getting the carbs in and out, on that bike.
Click to expand...

I'm thinking you might be right. I haven't used grease but I did notice some paint that had rubbed off the ends of each carb inside the boot. I never saw it on my old ones but maybe the new boots don't like it as well. I'll clean them out tomorrow morning and try it again using Ed's technique (haven't felt like working on it after work this week for some reason).
 
So went out and tried everything again making sure I followed Ed's order exactly:

I loosened the carbs from both sets of boots
Pulled the carbs into the rear boots and tightened each clamp down. I didn't clamp them to the stops like I did last time though.
Put the carbs into the intake boots and those I did tighten to the stops
Connected the top frame bracket and tightened those screws to hand tight
Connected the side frame bracket and tightened that screw to hand tight

Here's where I'm at on the back side. The front boots are flush with the front of the carbs.

Left side
75b0bfed.jpg


Right Side
0096d5ba.jpg


I need to go get a new stud for my exhaust pipes so I'll look at them when I get back. Hopefully the number 1 carb won't slide back anymore but to me it's already half way off.

I'll also check to see if I can't find 1/4" wide hose clamps that might work better.
 
Don't use ordinary hose clips - you'll mash the rubber. Try twisting the boot in the airbox, pulling towards the carb at the same time.

Another trick is to wedge a bit of wood behind the airbox before you tighten the mounting bolts up.
 
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