Wire/connector question for R/R replacement

[Nessism]

I?m replacing the R/R on my 1000S project bike using one of those FET units and could use some help selecting what kind of wire to use. The stator wires are fairly small, 18 gauge or so, and the inner strands are bright silver, not the common copper wire used in the main harness. I?m assuming this is some sort of high temperature capable wire but I?m not sure. The wires were chewed up so I cut off the last few inches and now the wires are too short to reach over to the side cover where the R/R is being mounted.

Can someone recommend some high temp capable wire and decent quality connectors that won't melt like the stock bullets? I'm not sure high temp wire is required but I'm guessing it won't hurt. Also, what gauge wire is needed? The stator leads are something like 18 gauge so would 16 gauge wire be thick enough coming out of the R/R? Lastly, should I run the R/R output though the stock fuseblock or just run a separate fuse to bypass the old wiring that is sure to have some added resistance?

As an aside, the stock wiring for the bike takes one output wire out of the R/R and sends it out to the RH hand control and then turns the wire around and sends it back to the fuseblock without any interruption - simple out and back loop according to the wiring diagram. What's up with that?

 

[TheCafeKid]

Ed, Let me preface this by saying i am NO electrical wizz WHATSOEVER, so you can take what I say with a grain of salt. If it were house wiring, Id tell you whatever you wanted to know, but vehicle wiring baffles me at times, mostly because it is usually unnecessarilly complex.(your last point comes to mind...TOTALLY not needed) Anyway, my understanding of it is pretty simple. The larger the wire gauge, the less resistance, but the more voltage is allowed to pass, and therefore less heat is built up. Obviously the point of the FET is to regulate the amount of voltage, so I would think you could TECHNICLY use ANY gauge of wire you wanted? Maybe not. But, 16 gauge i would think would be just fine, and help lessen the amount of heat build up, simply because its allowing more voltage thru it without resistance untill it gets to the R/R. Maybe my understanding is TOO simple

On another note, based off of some things ive learned from my roomie, who IS an electronics engineer... I bypass the the harness and whatnot entirely when i wire the hot lead from the R/R and go straight to the battery. This, from what he explained, eliminates any other possible resistances from excess wiring and connectors..

And, lastly, it would make sense to ME, to use ZERO connectors if possible, and solder the connections to everything from the R/R... yes, it makes it a pain if you have to remove it, but if its working as it should, and from what everyone has said THUS far with the FET set ups, it works FANTASTICLY, then why would you need to remove it?? Again, just my thoughts, pretty uneducated on the subject, other than what ive HAD to learn...usually i just pass that stuff off to Cole or Steve...LOL

 

[Steve]

...usually i just pass that stuff off to Cole or Steve...LOL

OK, Steve here.

You can use insulated spade terminals if you want to use connectors. You can solder and shrink-wrap if you want it permanent. You can use 16- or 18-gauge wiring, but no smaller. No point in making it bigger, either, as the 18-gauge in the stator harness is already your limiting factor.

And, that one wire does NOT go to the RH hand control. It only goes as far as a connector block under the gas tank, then comes back down. You can safely bypass that loop altogether by just connecting all three stator wires to all three r/r inputs.

From the r/r to the battery, consider at least 12-gauge, if not 10-gauge wire. Do the same thing or larger for the ground side. You can go straight to the battery, if you wish, but I would at least put a 20-amp fuse in there.

An alternative is to get a set of connectors or a complete harness from Eastern Beaver. I just installed an FET r/r on my wife's bike last week with mixed results. Could be some bad connections, but I have ordered a complete harness from Eastern Beaver and hope it gets here before I leave on Sunday, because my wife wants to RIDE.

.

 

[Nessism]

Reviewing wire specs shows that 16 gauge wire can safely carry 22 Amps. What is the reason to go to 10/12 gauge wire? Seems like going to 14 gauge would be plenty if one wanted to error on the conservative side no?

 

[SqDancerLynn1]

The idea for the wire loop to the control, disconnects the third stator circuit when the headlight is turned off... Since most of out bikes do not have the capability to turn off the light it is not needed, is an unnecessary circuit resistance. I hard wired my reg 3-4 years ago !!!

 

[tas850g]

i've put a 10amp inline fuse from my red wire of the r/r to the positive of the battery. I do this b/c the highest amp fuse i have in the fuse box is 15 amps. I don't know if this applies but if there is more heat/current going thru the wires i don't want it to get to and over heating/blow other electrical components of a lesser amp.

 

[posplayr]

OK, Steve here.

And, that one wire does NOT go to the RH hand control. It only goes as far as a connector block under the gas tank, then comes back down. You can safely bypass that loop altogether by just connecting all three stator wires to all three r/r inputs.

.

On the GS1100EZ/ED the loop goes to a block in the headlamp bucket. On the my 80 and 81 GS750E's there are light switches so it went all the way to the LH switch.

EDIT : Now I don't know if you made the same mistake I did referring to RH when you meant LH?
The RH controls the power to the ignition circuit so there are orange (ignition SW power) / orange white (ignition circuit switched )and orange /green (solenoid controls) wires going there.

Sounds like you did not get the charging issue solved. Funny as Psyguy and another rider had similar symptoms. Psyguy had virtually perfect R/R connections . I suggested swapping R/Rs' to isolate his problem. U double checked your drops?

 

[posplayr]

As an aside, the stock wiring for the bike takes one output wire out of the R/R and sends it out to the RH hand control and then turns the wire around and sends it back to the fuseblock without any interruption - simple out and back loop according to the wiring diagram. What's up with that?

Now I'm really confused , see that I might have answered Steve on a different issue and my own block diagram is labled wrong.

Ed,
I did a simplified schematic here to when i was chasing down where all of the connection were for the ignition. The RH control is the ON and START control so the +12V ignition circuit does run all the way to the handlebar.

The R/R +12V output typically splits going to the ignition and to the fusebox to charge the battery. Where it says left hand control realize it is RH on page 3 of 7

http://www.posplayr.100megsfree3.com/FH012AA_Charging/DynaS_Coil_RelayMod.pdf

 

[tkent02]

Solder melts when it gets hot; a good reason not to use it here.
I like to crimp the connections but not with the cheapo Walmart chinese cheesey poof connectors and toy pliers, use good solid crimps done with the proper crimping tool, don't use those plastic handled pliers with little slots for crimping.
Real crimpers have mechanical leverage and a special shape to fit together. If you can pull the wire out of the crimp there's something wrong.
I still have my crimp stuff from working at Boeing a long time ago, the wires don't pull out.
Not sure where these are still available.
Aviation supply place maybe?

 

[propflux01]

Originally Posted by Nessism
As an aside, the stock wiring for the bike takes one output wire out of the R/R and sends it out to the RH hand control and then turns the wire around and sends it back to the fuseblock without any interruption - simple out and back loop according to the wiring diagram. What's up with that?

The R/R +12V output typically splits going to the ignition and to the fusebox to charge the battery.

On my 'GK Wire Diagram, the R/R output wire goes to a 'T', which branches off one way to the IGN switch, then back to fuse box. The other branch goes to the Battery Via the Starter Solenoid post.

 

[bonanzadave]

Aviation supply place maybe?

Thats all I use. http://www.aircraftspruce.com/menus/el/terminals.html

Tefzel wire too.http://www.aircraftspruce.com/menus/el/wire.html

 

[posplayr]

On my 'GK Wire Diagram, the R/R output wire goes to a 'T', which branches off one way to the IGN switch, then back to fuse box. The other branch goes to the Battery Via the Starter Solenoid post.

So the R/R (+) to Battery (+) path is not fused? I know I have seen an amazing amount of variation year to year and model to model even in the same year, but are you sure the schematic shows it that way?:-&


This one shows a fuse on the battery leg of the "T".

http://members.dslextreme.com/users/bikecliff/images/GS1100G_1982_wiring.jpg

 

[Nessism]

Just to clarify...

Steve is right in that the W/G stator leg goes to the plug for the RIGHT HAND switch (not all the way to the switch) and then turns around and goes back to the R/R via a W/R wire. There are no branches off this circuit which makes sense this is AC power. This out and back silliness confuses me, it doesn't seem to serve any purpose other than to add some resistance load due to wire length. Is this good?

The output for the the R/R feeds into the fuse block with a T circuit feeding the main harness. The fuse is 15A which makes me think that's enough for the entire system. True? If the wire load is only 15A, than 16 gauge wire is more than large enough for the entire charging system (which is what Suzuki did as near as I can tell).

 

[Nessism]

Thats all I use. http://www.aircraftspruce.com/menus/el/terminals.html

Tefzel wire too.http://www.aircraftspruce.com/menus/el/wire.html

Good stuff here Dave. Think I'm going to order me up some wire and one of those Seal's All three pin connectors for the stator leads into the R/R.

 

[bonanzadave]

one of those Seal's All three pin connectors for the stator leads into the R/R.

http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/pdf/FAQsSeal-All.pdf

Looks like you have to order the terminals, seals and connectors separate. I have that crimper but if you dont I would use a little solder.

http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/elpages/sealAllconnectors.php

Why not get the six position connector and put the Stator and RR wires in one.......

 

[posplayr]

Just to clarify...

Steve is right in that the W/G stator leg goes to the plug for the RIGHT HAND switch (not all the way to the switch) and then turns around and goes back to the R/R via a W/R wire. .

AC voltage and Right Hand switch????? :-s

You mean AC voltage and Left Hand Switch?

 

[Nessism]

AC voltage and Right Hand switch????? :-s

You mean AC voltage and Left Hand Switch?

What good would AC voltage do at the LH/RH or any switch for that matter? At any rate, it's the RH side and as stated, it just loops back and travels back to the R/R. Very strange to my uninformed mind.

 

[propflux01]

So the R/R (+) to Battery (+) path is not fused? I know I have seen an amazing amount of variation year to year and model to model even in the same year, but are you sure the schematic shows it that way?:-&


This one shows a fuse on the battery leg of the "T".

http://members.dslextreme.com/users/bikecliff/images/GS1100G_1982_wiring.jpg

You are correct, My Bad. Looking at my Schematic, it shows the fused wire going directly to the battery terminal, which on the bike, mine does not. It goes to the solenoid.

 

[Steve]

This out and back silliness confuses me, it doesn't seem to serve any purpose other than to add some resistance load due to wire length. Is this good?

What good would AC voltage do at the LH/RH or any switch for that matter? At any rate, it's the RH side and as stated, it just loops back and travels back to the R/R. Very strange to my uninformed mind.

OK, then, let's inform your mind.

Back in the days when the bikes had operating headlight switches, they ran that loop from the stator to the headlight switch, then back down to the r/r. There were two separate circuits connectd to the headlight switch. One of them switched DC power from the fuse to the headlight. The other one switched AC power from the third leg of the stator. This prevented the r/r from working so hard when the headlight was turned off, as the third leg was turned off at the same time.

To keep the wiring harnesses somewhat universal between the various markets, there was a connector along the way. All of the ones I have seen were under the gas tank, posplayr says his were in the headlight bucket. Either way, it was a 9-pin (or so) connector. When there was a headlight switch, the harness that plugged into that connector split to its various locations, one of them directed the stator wire to the left handgrip, then brought the switched wire back to the 9-pin connector. When they discontinued the headlight switch (at least in the US market), they did not change the main harness, as it still worked it other markets, they just changed the harness that went to the front. Instead of wires leading to a non-functional switch in the handgrip, there is just a loop of wire that sends it back to the r/r unswitched.

If you look at this diagram that posplayr showed, you can see the loop. Look at the top, just below the engine stop switch and starter button. There is a long black line that is the connector. Toward the right end of that connector you can see the green/white wire coming from the stator, through the connector, then looping over to the red/white wire and back to the r/r.

If you look at this diagram from a '79 850, you can see how it used to be. The stator is still on the bottom, just right of center. Follow the green/white wire to the left and down to the connector, then to the headlight switch. The red/white wire comes out of the headlight switch, through the connector, then back to the r/r. Easy to see when you have color diagrams.

Do ya feel edumacated now?

.

 

[TheCafeKid]

OK, then, let's inform your mind.

Back in the days when the bikes had operating headlight switches, they ran that loop from the stator to the headlight switch, then back down to the r/r. There were two separate circuits connectd to the headlight switch. One of them switched DC power from the fuse to the headlight. The other one switched AC power from the third leg of the stator. This prevented the r/r from working so hard when the headlight was turned off, as the third leg was turned off at the same time.

To keep the wiring harnesses somewhat universal between the various markets, there was a connector along the way. All of the ones I have seen were under the gas tank, posplayr says his were in the headlight bucket. Either way, it was a 9-pin (or so) connector. When there was a headlight switch, the harness that plugged into that connector split to its various locations, one of them directed the stator wire to the left handgrip, then brought the switched wire back to the 9-pin connector. When they discontinued the headlight switch (at least in the US market), they did not change the main harness, as it still worked it other markets, they just changed the harness that went to the front. Instead of wires leading to a non-functional switch in the handgrip, there is just a loop of wire that sends it back to the r/r unswitched.

If you look at this diagram that posplayr showed, you can see the loop. Look at the top, just below the engine stop switch and starter button. There is a long black line that is the connector. Toward the right end of that connector you can see the green/white wire coming from the stator, through the connector, then looping over to the red/white wire and back to the r/r.

If you look at this diagram from a '79 850, you can see how it used to be. The stator is still on the bottom, just right of center. Follow the green/white wire to the left and down to the connector, then to the headlight switch. The red/white wire comes out of the headlight switch, through the connector, then back to the r/r. Easy to see when you have color diagrams.

Do ya feel edumacated now?

.

Sayyyyy You have those fancy colour diagrams in 1100E and 1000G??? How bout 750B???