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Cam journal and cam FUBAR

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    #1

    Cam journal and cam FUBAR

    Well if I didnt have chitty luck I would be bored to death...HA HA

    73 TX750 has spun the left side cam end and journal. But the flip side of all my bad luck is that an Ebay seller has a new NOS cam and left side cam holder......so nearly 300.00 later the parts are ordered up.


    Last edited by chuck hahn; 05-04-2014, 02:58 PM.
    MY BIKES..1977 GS 750 B, 1978 GS 1000 C (X2)
    1978 GS 1000 E, 1979 GS 1000 S, 1973 Yamaha TX 750, 1977 Kawasaki KZ 650B1, 1975 Honda GL1000 Goldwing, 1983 CB 650SC Nighthawk, 1972 Honda CB 350K4, 74 Honda CB550

    NEVER SNEAK UP ON A SLEEPING DOG..NOT EVEN YOUR OWN.


    I would rather trust my bike to a "QUACK" that KNOWS how to fix it rather than a book worm that THINKS HE KNOWS how to fix it.
    Tags: None
    #2
    If you do a little research you will find that, that particular problem was one of the many that was the demise of the TX. As I recall I think it was Kenny Roberts who was racing for Yamaha at the time, found that out first hand.If I remember correctly for Daytona races in 74 he toasted like 3-4 engines between practice and the main race
    My mistake he rode the TZ750, but here is a good read
    YAMAHA 1974 TX 750 . . . . THE NON HAND GRENADE MODEL THAT IS . . . . ANYONE WHO'S EVER RIDDEN A 360 DEGREE CRANK PARALLEL TWIN WILL KNOW THE VIBRATIONS ARE PRETTY RAD, THE WORST I'VE EXPERIENCED BEING THE TRUMPY DAYTONA 500 . . . . WHEN YAMAHA ROLLED OUT THE TX 750 IN '72/'73, THEY THOUGHT THEY HAD THE BAD VIBES LICKED . . . . AS FATE WOULD HAVE IT, UNFORTUNATELY, THEY FUCKED UP . . . . SELF DESTRUCTION PAR EXCELLENCE.
    http://whitelinepsychos.blogspot.com/2013/04/yamaha-1974-tx-750-non-hand-grenade.html
    A blog about cool bikes, cool cars, cool music, cool films, stupid shit, and a bit of vitriolic ranting . . . passion and complete disclosure,
    Last edited by hjfisk; 05-04-2014, 07:13 PM.
    1984 GS1100GK newest addition to the heard
    80 GS 1000gt- most favorite ride love this bike
    1978 GS1000E- Known as "RoadKill" , Finished :D
    83 gs750ed- first new purchase
    85 EX500- vintage track weapon
    1958Ducati 98 Tourismo
    “Remember When in doubt use full throttle, It may not improve the situation ,but it will end the suspense ,
    If it isn't going to make it faster or safer it isn't worth doing

    Comment

      #3
      I am very aware Harry...they had problems due to the counter balancers frothing the oil and the scavanger pump loosing prime because of it. There was just over 9,000 on the clock when i got it and I have put on around 1,300...so it wasnt an unexpected find. In short..I knew it was gonna happen sooner or later..and I am just glad I got new OEM parts found.

      One thing I think will help is to drill a small hole thru the top of the cam journals ( they are solid and you put each holder on over the cam ends like a sock) so that oil can be more readily drawn to the cam / journal surfaces. Cant ruin or hurt the journals with a small hole.
      MY BIKES..1977 GS 750 B, 1978 GS 1000 C (X2)
      1978 GS 1000 E, 1979 GS 1000 S, 1973 Yamaha TX 750, 1977 Kawasaki KZ 650B1, 1975 Honda GL1000 Goldwing, 1983 CB 650SC Nighthawk, 1972 Honda CB 350K4, 74 Honda CB550

      NEVER SNEAK UP ON A SLEEPING DOG..NOT EVEN YOUR OWN.


      I would rather trust my bike to a "QUACK" that KNOWS how to fix it rather than a book worm that THINKS HE KNOWS how to fix it.

      Comment

        #4
        There looks to be enough meat around the bearing that boring the housing out and inserting either a needle roller or a ball bearing should be possible.

        That would solve the oiling problems in that area anyway...

        If you stick with the stock setup, Honda twins have an oil hole on the top of the cam bearings with a large countersink area to catch and direct the oil.

        Comment

          #5
          This is exactly what I was think Greg with the drill a hole idea. Its the easiest fix I can think of , and yes theres about 1/2 inch of metal surrounding the cam ends so I dont think it would effect anything structural.

          Like i said, everything was well oiled when I took it apart so I know the top end IS getting oil to it. Just need to be sure these ends get well lubed all the time.
          MY BIKES..1977 GS 750 B, 1978 GS 1000 C (X2)
          1978 GS 1000 E, 1979 GS 1000 S, 1973 Yamaha TX 750, 1977 Kawasaki KZ 650B1, 1975 Honda GL1000 Goldwing, 1983 CB 650SC Nighthawk, 1972 Honda CB 350K4, 74 Honda CB550

          NEVER SNEAK UP ON A SLEEPING DOG..NOT EVEN YOUR OWN.


          I would rather trust my bike to a "QUACK" that KNOWS how to fix it rather than a book worm that THINKS HE KNOWS how to fix it.

          Comment

            #6
            The original parts are recoverable too. Machine the cam end to a nice fresh surface - usually less than .020in to come off. Then bore the bearing to maybe 3/16in oversize and press in a bronze bush. Finish machine to around .002 - .003in clearance, add the oil hole and jobs done...

            i've recovered a number of Honda CB350 cam bearing caps in this way so i know it works.

            Comment

              #7
              Well I dont have the machinery to do all that Greg. If you do, how much would that run me..send the old stuff and have it refurbished.
              MY BIKES..1977 GS 750 B, 1978 GS 1000 C (X2)
              1978 GS 1000 E, 1979 GS 1000 S, 1973 Yamaha TX 750, 1977 Kawasaki KZ 650B1, 1975 Honda GL1000 Goldwing, 1983 CB 650SC Nighthawk, 1972 Honda CB 350K4, 74 Honda CB550

              NEVER SNEAK UP ON A SLEEPING DOG..NOT EVEN YOUR OWN.


              I would rather trust my bike to a "QUACK" that KNOWS how to fix it rather than a book worm that THINKS HE KNOWS how to fix it.

              Comment

                #8
                Given where i am, postage would be the dearest part....

                find yourself an old guy with a good home workshop, and cosy up to him.

                Oklahoma....There should be a lot of dirt car race engine shops there surely ? They're set up for this sort of work and may be interested in a small cash job....

                Comment

                  #9
                  Greg... I got the new NOS cam ordered yesterday off Ebay and he wanted 215.00 and i didnt even blink. And the new left side cam block was another 65.00. And seeing that I may never find them again due to the scarcity factors coming to play, Shipping them to you would be a wise investment.

                  I could even get another used right side off ebay and have you do that side and send me back a set ready to go with the rollers for the ( kets pray not ) next time.
                  MY BIKES..1977 GS 750 B, 1978 GS 1000 C (X2)
                  1978 GS 1000 E, 1979 GS 1000 S, 1973 Yamaha TX 750, 1977 Kawasaki KZ 650B1, 1975 Honda GL1000 Goldwing, 1983 CB 650SC Nighthawk, 1972 Honda CB 350K4, 74 Honda CB550

                  NEVER SNEAK UP ON A SLEEPING DOG..NOT EVEN YOUR OWN.


                  I would rather trust my bike to a "QUACK" that KNOWS how to fix it rather than a book worm that THINKS HE KNOWS how to fix it.

                  Comment

                    #10
                    Oil delivery line fixed

                    Broke down and got a 10MM Helicoil kit and a new banjo bolt and just got the repair done...Cost way way more than the dang thing should have but its done now. Bolt, crush washers, and the kit came to $55 and change.

                    Got a course threaded banjo bolt and matching kit because thats all Oriellys had. Base gasket should be here Thursday or Friday so I will be stuffing the engine back in this weekend hopefully.
                    MY BIKES..1977 GS 750 B, 1978 GS 1000 C (X2)
                    1978 GS 1000 E, 1979 GS 1000 S, 1973 Yamaha TX 750, 1977 Kawasaki KZ 650B1, 1975 Honda GL1000 Goldwing, 1983 CB 650SC Nighthawk, 1972 Honda CB 350K4, 74 Honda CB550

                    NEVER SNEAK UP ON A SLEEPING DOG..NOT EVEN YOUR OWN.


                    I would rather trust my bike to a "QUACK" that KNOWS how to fix it rather than a book worm that THINKS HE KNOWS how to fix it.

                    Comment

                      #11
                      Well today I got the new oil rings installed and new valve stem seals too. Re used the compression rings as they only had 1300 miles on them. Hopefully all the issues regarding cams and the oil smoking are addressed. Just waiting on the cam chain master link to get here so I can put the cover on and get the bike reassembled.

                      Hopefully she will be smoke free again.
                      MY BIKES..1977 GS 750 B, 1978 GS 1000 C (X2)
                      1978 GS 1000 E, 1979 GS 1000 S, 1973 Yamaha TX 750, 1977 Kawasaki KZ 650B1, 1975 Honda GL1000 Goldwing, 1983 CB 650SC Nighthawk, 1972 Honda CB 350K4, 74 Honda CB550

                      NEVER SNEAK UP ON A SLEEPING DOG..NOT EVEN YOUR OWN.


                      I would rather trust my bike to a "QUACK" that KNOWS how to fix it rather than a book worm that THINKS HE KNOWS how to fix it.

                      Comment

                        #12
                        Chuck, is there any way to add a top end oiler to the engine?
                        De-stinking Penelope http://thegsresources.com/_forum/sho...d.php?t=179245

                        http://www.thegsresources.com/_forum...35#post1625535

                        Comment

                          #13
                          What do you mean?? Its fed thru a feeder tube that runs up the back of the engine. Then the oil goes thru passages that are running thru the cam blocks. these passages in turn feed the hollow centers of the rocker arms..then its pumped out onto the cam lobes. Its kinda a wierd routed oil delivery system if you ask me.

                          One set of passages is supposed to feed the cam journal ends also. I have blown the passages with lots of carb spray and air and am very confident theres great oil flow now.

                          Thats why the idea of drilling a feeder hole thru the block itself was added.
                          MY BIKES..1977 GS 750 B, 1978 GS 1000 C (X2)
                          1978 GS 1000 E, 1979 GS 1000 S, 1973 Yamaha TX 750, 1977 Kawasaki KZ 650B1, 1975 Honda GL1000 Goldwing, 1983 CB 650SC Nighthawk, 1972 Honda CB 350K4, 74 Honda CB550

                          NEVER SNEAK UP ON A SLEEPING DOG..NOT EVEN YOUR OWN.


                          I would rather trust my bike to a "QUACK" that KNOWS how to fix it rather than a book worm that THINKS HE KNOWS how to fix it.

                          Comment

                            #14
                            Dale...there is also this cover ( #19 ) over the cam chain. Was thinking about leaving it off in the hope that it would also sling lots of oil around and get some more slop at the cam ends. What do you think.

                            404, Page Not Found
                            http://www.partsoutlaw.com/oemparts/a/yam/5004175df8700209bc784b60/camshaft-chain-tensioner
                            MY BIKES..1977 GS 750 B, 1978 GS 1000 C (X2)
                            1978 GS 1000 E, 1979 GS 1000 S, 1973 Yamaha TX 750, 1977 Kawasaki KZ 650B1, 1975 Honda GL1000 Goldwing, 1983 CB 650SC Nighthawk, 1972 Honda CB 350K4, 74 Honda CB550

                            NEVER SNEAK UP ON A SLEEPING DOG..NOT EVEN YOUR OWN.


                            I would rather trust my bike to a "QUACK" that KNOWS how to fix it rather than a book worm that THINKS HE KNOWS how to fix it.

                            Comment

                              #15
                              I'd think you could safely leave it off. yamaha were a tad paranoid about breaking cam chains on the early efforts and that is mainly a guard to prevent damage...

                              thanks for the link to the parts fisch - I'd still reckon bronze bushing the cam bearing blocks is feasible. Price up postage to NZ...

                              Comment

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