Transmission/Drivetrain issues....

[Nessism]

The Suzuki rear ends are almost indestructible so my money is on the secondary gears at this point. Dale's suggestions are sound. If you do need a new final drive I have a spare you can have for shipping cost (came out of a 28k mile GS1000). I've been trying to give this dang thing away for over a year but they never fail so nobody want it.

Good luck.

[bluedawgie]

I think most of you would have said something, but have you heard of this happening before. I'm new to the "shaftie" bikes. I had an old '57 Triumph 650 Tiger that I had a chain lock up on me, but that was become there was too much slack. Anyone willing to take a chance and try to guess what is the real issue, when we find out.
Oh, and one other thing. I did put the drained oil into some old oil containers, and haven't turned them in yet at the auto parts store for
recycling. I think maybe I'll run it through something like a screen strainer and then perhaps put a magnet to the remains. Never know, I might come up with a broken tooth or something. One thing nice about the area where I live, is that there are some industrial parks within not too far of a driving distance. I've got a NAPA warehouse, Fastenal warehouse, MSC warehouse, Edison Industrial tools sales. You name it for mechanical needs and I can almost be there within 5 minutes. Comes in real handy when you need to run out and grab that needed part or tool real quick.

[tom203]

I think most of you would have said something, but have you heard of this happening before. I'm new to the "shaftie" bikes. I had an old '57 Triumph 650 Tiger that I had a chain lock up on me, but that was become there was too much slack. Anyone willing to take a chance and try to guess what is the real issue, when we find out.

Well sure, I love to make wild guesses! I think something ( bolt, chunk of gear, etc ) broke off and "just" happenned to jam between bevel gears causing an lockup. The curved face on these gears could grab onto a metal chunk and drag it in.
If it was internal to tranny, I would think trans parts would just strip out and not cause wheel lockup. Are you happy now ? get back at it and let us know!

[bluedawgie]

Alrighty then......I got delayed....life keeps kinda getting in the way...you know....work, wife, kids, etc. I pulled off the cover for the points and condensor, twisted the nut, and made it all the way around in neutral just fine. Now, here's the kicker....I put it in first gear, made almost one complete revolution and near the end of the first revolution, it started to bind on me. I hope I didn't break anything, but I gave it an extra "nudge" and it "snapped" and I was able to go around again with the same feel, coming to a bind again. I decided to put it in second gear, and try it again. It went around the same way, but no bind and no snap. I decided to put in back in first gear and see what happens, and no bind and no snap. Now, I've only done this for a few revolutions, and there could be something "flukey" going on here. I think it might be safe to say it's in the "tranny" somewhere. Incidentally, I probably ought to add this in also.
In checking my secondary gear oil, (today) I noticed that it's almost watery. Hardly any slipperiness to it at all, plus in checking my service manual, I am supposed to have 330-440ml, as compared to 280-330ml for the final drive. I think that amounts to somewhere around 12 oz. or more.
Well, let alone being watery consistency, I had about 2 tbsps. My jaw dropped when I read that! WHAT?! Here's what I'm planning on doing, and stop me if you think I shouldn't. I am going to put the recommended 90W in the secondary fill area, and rotate it by hand to see if things loosen up. I'm not going to start the motor yet, (especially with the final drive disconnected)but at least that might tell me if the extreme lack of lubrication in the secondary gear area is pointing more towards the issue.

[tom203]

Yeah, things get in the way when you're busy.
Anyways, you're rotating that nut CLOCKWISE and tranny is turning. Is propellor shaft turning ( or the flange that it's attached to, if you removed it ) ?
My 650 has different trans system, so others will have to climb aboard to sort this out. But don't waste your time or oil by adding oil at this point- you're looking for a serious jam up or broken part.

[rustybronco]

When the bike is in gear, the secondary drive and the drive shaft turn. combined with very little lubricant in the secondary drive, leads one to believe the lockup is going to be found in the secondary drive.

download a "G" shop manual off bikecliffs website. read up on how to remove, replace and adjust (re-shim) the drive and driven gear assemblies. you may also want to inquire about a secondary gear set in the parts wanted section, if the need for them arises.

now to figure out where the gear lubricant went. was it because of seal leakage, or a PO drain and forgot to refill it, or?

lastly, are you going to be up to the challenge, or do you want to bail out on this one? you're at a point where you can slap it back together and pay someone a boat load of cash to fix it for you, or do it yourself. (I suggest you fix it yourself)

[tom203]

When the bike is in gear, the secondary drive and the drive shaft turn. combined with very little lubricant in the secondary drive, leads one to believe the lockup is going to be found in the secondary drive.

lastly, are you going to be up to the challenge, or do you want to bail out on this one? you're at a point where you can slap it back together and pay someone a boat load of cash to fix it for you, or do it yourself. (I suggest you fix it yourself)

I think you, bluedawgie, need to go one step before you conclude your exploring. I'd pull off propellor/u-joint shaft and then attempt to remove the housing holding the gear assembly that drives the u-joint. If you can extract this, you will see the bevel drive gears up close and personal. Mark all parts to keep them oriented- especially the housing, since this was probably carefully positioned for best gear meshing. If you get to this step and find what's wrong, at least you'll know and can continue or bail out as you see fit.

[rustybronco]

It may be simpler to just pull off the gear shift lever, remove the cover and pull the secondary drive gear housing to inspect. pulling the driven gear housing requires swing arm removal.

[bluedawgie]

I really DON'T want to take it to my mechanic, mainly because I can't learn to do it myself if he does it for me. I'm willing to do almost whatever it takes to figure it out for myself, along with the help of you folks here on GS Resources and bugging all my biker/mechanic friends as to what they suggest. Your suggestions on here have been most helpful. I'm gonna keep plugging along until I get it right. As I said previously, I wanted a project bike for a hobby to learn more about motorcycles, but I also wanted to get a little bit more riding time in before the snow flies. But, you can't always get you want...(sounds like the lyrics from a Stones' song). I'll keep searching and digging until I find the issue. I was just talking to a co-worker who did R&D work at the Honda motorcycle plant near here, and he suggested flushing the secondary gear oil system with a light weight oil (transmission fluid) to see if I get any metal particles.
Incidentally, and this is just out of curiousity mainly, is anyone on here a current/or was a motorcycle mechanic? Lotta good info. on here.
Thanks again for all your help. Talk atcha later with more updates.

[rustybronco]

If you are going to flush the secondary drive unit, may I suggest kerosene...

In answer to your querry, No I am not, nor ever have been a motorcycle mechanic for a living. industrial lift truck and automotive yes, but not M/C.

[tom203]

It may be simpler to just pull off the gear shift lever, remove the cover and pull the secondary drive gear housing to inspect. pulling the driven gear housing requires swing arm removal.

That's what I like about this place- I learn more stuff! Absolutely, that would be much easier to see if those gears have bit something.

[bluedawgie]

Okay.....I went out into my "man cave" and played around some more.
I put about 12 oz. of tranny fluid into the secondary drive oil hole. Went back and rotated nut on the right side. No more binding, but.....it certainly is hard to turn. When I put it in neutral, a lot easier. I also did something else, and maybe I shouldn't have, but wanted to see what happens. I turned to nut couter clockwise and it seemed like it was easier to turn. Here's something else that's puzzling....I had my daughter pull in on the clutch while I rotated the nut clockwise. It got just a tad bit easier. I'm thinking I'm going to have to pull the engine and split the case for closer examination. But first, as suggested, I will disassemble the drive shaft and take apart the swing arm system, then attempt to pull the secondary drive gear. I will be downloading the pdf also. Looks like more fun ahead, and I may as well get it into my mind that my riding has been cut short for this season. I told my daughter as we were standing there staring at my bike....let this be a valuable lesson. Learn to do your PM's.
We both kinda got a little laugh when I was telling her about my Dad, her grandpa, in asking him if he remembers when he last checked the secondary gear drive oil...and he said...what's that? Never mind Dad, you just answered my question. One other thing today after crying on my fellow biker's shoulders....there are two small bike shops within a few miles of me that I wasn't aware of at all. Guess when you get a bike, you become more aware of things like that when your conversation turns to bikes.

[bluedawgie]

I hope I'm not violating any forum rules on here, but I thought I'd post a pic of my bike....well, not MY bike, but one identical to mine...except mine needs a good paint job...(been scuffed up a bit) rechroming and some other touch-up jobs. This photo is really what I want my bike to look like when I'm done with it. It looks factory new.

http://suzuki-gs-bikes.smugmug.com/Motorcycles/Beautiful-1982-GS1100GK/10603897_gKjEw#737246450_6WGan-XL-LB

[tom203]

Wow, you getting into this! I would advise against turning crank nut counterclockwise except a bit- cuz you pushing cam chain against adjuster and bad things could happen.When your daugher pulled in clutch,the tranny is basically seperated from engine, so it would be easier to turn. Before you pull swingarm , do what Rustybronco said- remove gear shift lever, cover and pull secondary gear housing to inspect the gears- you might see something obvious. Maybe you'll get lucky and one of Dad's gold bars will fall out!

[bluedawgie]

Well.....I really want to learn, Tom. I figure I can't learn if I let someone else do it. Okay, that'll be my next move. I'll remove the cover and the secondary gear. Thanks. Oh, I'll letcha know if Dad stashed any "gold" in there....lol.