no power to ground

[Normk]

Is that set "hunting", "semi-non hunting", or "non-hunting"?

Unless it is a "non-hunting" ratio the mesh of the gears needs to be indexed on reassembly so the meshed teeth need to be marked before it is disassembled.

[BassCliff]

Greetings and Salutations!!

Hi Mr. cruiser58,

Sorry I'm late.

Have a look at the Rear Wheel Removal guide on my little website for a pictures about the rear wheel hub spline gear and such.

Now let me dump a TON if information on you and share some GS lovin'.

I just stopped by to welcome you to the forum in my own, special way.

If there's anything you'd like to know about the Suzuki GS model bikes, and most others actually, you've come to the right place. There's a lot of knowledge and experience here in the community. Come on in and let me say "HOoooowwwDY!"....

Here is your very own magical, mystical, mythical, mind-expanding "mega-welcome". Please take notice of the "Top 10 Common Issues", "Top 15 Tips For GS Happiness", the Carb Cleanup Series, and the Stator Papers. All of these tasks must be addressed in order to have a safe, reliable machine. Now let me roll out the welcome mat for you...



Please click here for your mega-welcome, chock full of tips, suggestions, links to vendors, and other information. Then feel free to visit my little BikeCliff website where I've been collecting the wisdom of this generous community. Don't forget, we like pictures! Not you, your bike!

Thanks for joining us. Keep us informed.

Thank you for your indulgence,

BassCliff

[cruiser58]

Thanks for the warm welcome BassCliff, I'm amazed by all the information you guys are willing to share, I belong to some other forums and some of the gurus are reluctant to share their hard earned info. Anyhoo, I've gotten the engine off the frame and removed the driven bevel gear assembly and all looks well, BUT I can hold the drive bevel gear with a pry bar and turn the clutch output by hand (not good) the shaft and the shock absorber assembly on it turn. I would think that the driven gear would be splined to the business end of the shock assembly but I'll have to explore further. Doe's anyone know if secondary parts are still available new? And how about interchangeability if I have to go the salvage route?

[tom203]

If you go back and look at pic I sent of tranny, that main shaft ( bevel gear on right end) is deceiving- it's actually two shafts, clutch input drive on one end and an output shaft to bevel gear. In fifth, these shafts are locked together by sliding second (I think ?) gear dogs into that final reduction gear so clutch and bevel gear turn as one unit. Since your bevel gear looks OK, sounds like your problem is in trans. Lots of parts available on ebay with low mileage. I'll guess that most of these bikes wind up being stripped for failure to figure out carb and electrical issues. You might consider just swapping out the entire engine/trans assembly.

[cruiser58]

Common sense tells me that the gear is connected to the shock absorber, but a complete teardown is the only way to tell for sure,if I can find a fairly complete case for the right price I may go that route but I still will want to split the case and use fresh crank and rod bearings. Guess I'll just have to dive into mine "Head and years" as we rednecks say!

[tom203]

Common sense tells me that the gear is connected to the shock absorber, but a complete teardown is the only way to tell for sure,if I can find a fairly complete case for the right price I may go that route but I still will want to split the case and use fresh crank and rod bearings. Guess I'll just have to dive into mine "Head and years" as we rednecks say!

I like ambition! Methinks that shock dog is splined into bevel gear and spring pushes against the ramp- but you sound like you will find out for me and end all doubt. It's reassuring to see the bevel gears looking good at 56k.
For what you'll probably pay for parts, you could probably scoop a non-runner with low mileage -and have lots of spare parts to trip over.

[Normk]

On this or another thread, I asked whether the front & rear driveshaft gears are "hunting", "semi-nonhunting", or "non hunting" but haven't seen a response. Perhaps no one understood the question so will re-phrase because the concept is important.

Can anyone provide the numbers of teeth for the two gear pairs?

If the gear ratio has no decimals, the gear set is referred to as a "hunting" ratio because specific teeth on each gear only mesh with certain teeth on the other. An example would be for a 10 tooth driving gear which is meshed with a 30 tooth driven. It can be seen that any specific tooth on the smaller gear will contact four specific teeth on the larger. These teeth which contact one another are always the same and wear together to produce a pattern unique to these teeth. When these gear sets are removed, they should be marked so that the teeth are engaged in the same interaction as they are used to running. Failing to do so can create noise and excessive wear. The term is easy to understand as each tooth "hunts" for its opposite relationship.

If the gear ratio has one decimal, the teeth in contact will vary such that any tooth on the smaller gear will contact one of several teeth on the larger gear and will shift meshing between this certain grouping of teeth. This is called a "semi-nonhunting ratio". This type of gear set must also be marked although the effect may be less if it is placed out of time although this is conjecture on my part as have not tested the theory out of a wish to avoid acting more foolishly than needs be. Pulling and reassembling gear sets seems a less attractive activity than sitting comfortably with a coffee and a bun. It might be difficult to prove the effect as placing the gears out of mesh will produce noise and wear which may affect subsequent operation when placed back into the correct timing.

If the gear ratio has two or more decimals (only two are published) the teeth of one gear contact all of the teeth on the other so timing is unimportant.

Now, there's the explanation so everyone can see why consideration as to gear mesh timing is important so can someone provide numbers as I am far less altruistic than would be required to disassemble Suzie's drive in the interest of interest. I do wonder why "semi-nonhunting" rather than "semi-hunting" but that's another question.

[tom203]

Stumbling thru my parts bin, I found part of a secondary drive- the bevel gear gizmo- which I had assumed was from a 650 setup. Clearly, what I have is from a 850 setup- the bevel gear assembly that accepts the trans output and mates with the bevel gear driving the prop shaft. It has 16 teeth- I'll take a wild guess and bet that its mate also has 16 teeth. I'd hate to be the guy that spent his days at the Suzuki factory fitting these things up. After many miles, maybe this assembly should be reshimed for noise/play problems, but I'm not planning to live this long!

[cruiser58]

I'd hate to be the guy that spent his days at the Suzuki factory fitting these things up. After many miles, maybe this assembly should be reshimed for noise/play problems, but I'm not planning to live this long!

I'll bet the guy kept a bottle of saki under his workbench! I found a transmission set on evilbay and will install same with all the precision my feeler gauges and harbor freight dial indicator allow. I would like to get another 56k out of her but I'll settle for a few summers in the wind!

[tom203]

The 650 is great mid size bike- smooth and quiet, with enough power for most folks. Be sure to tell us what part actually failed when you get around to ripping it open.

[rustybronco]

On this or another thread, I asked whether the front & rear driveshaft gears are "hunting", "semi-nonhunting", or "non hunting" but haven't seen a response. Perhaps no one understood the question...

Perhaps you might want to consult the shop manual. in it I believe it will list the secondary gear ratios. but, I don't ever recall any timing marks on either gear so I think that might answer the question you seek. and, by the way, I've always known gear sets as hunting, partial hunting and non hunting.

[Normk]

Secondary reduction 1.062 17/16

Final drive reduction 3.090 34/11 Clearly this would be 34 for the crown gear so the numbers are listed in the reverse to normal practice.

According to my reading of Tom203's post the driving gear for the front set (secondary reduction) is 16 tooth so the numbers there are also reversed.

[cruiser58]

So if my "semi-neanderthol" cranium is interpreting this correctly the bevel gears are "non hunting" ? I do hope so because it is unlikely that whomever disassembled the trans that I purchased had the foresight to mark the bevel gears. Thanks guys!

[Normk]

Yeah, that was the point I was working around to but thought some background might be useful to someone and might bring out some stories and information which it has.

There's often madness to my method!

So if my "semi-neanderthol" cranium is interpreting this correctly the bevel gears are "non hunting" ? I do hope so because it is unlikely that whomever disassembled the trans that I purchased had the foresight to mark the bevel gears. Thanks guys!

[rustybronco]

cruser58,

When you go to re-assemble the secondary gears in the case, it might be wise to paint a few of the gears teeth with a gear marking compound (Kendall blue works as well) and double check the gears for proper tooth contact then check the back lash on them. chances are those will be just fine as assembled, but you never know who or what may have been done with the original shims. the reason I suggest you do it now is, it would be a bit unfortunate to find out somethings amiss 'after' the engine is back in the frame.