Gs1100 starter clutch

[Guest]

Seems like I gotta open up the starter clutch on my '82 1100E. The motor spins, but isn't cranking the engine.

Looking through the manual, they call for a special tool to hold the alternator rotor to remove the locknut. Is there a home brewed alternative? I was thinking of using a strap wrench or an oil filter wrench and an impact driver. Any tried and true methods?

Also, is this usually the little pawl cylinder getting gummed up, or should I replace the cylinder and spring?

Thanks in advance.

[gearhead13]

How about getting a bolt with 12mm threads and screwing it into the spark plug hole, to keep the crank from turning. Just have to make sure it is on a cycle where the valves are closed.

[chef1366]

If it is spinning then it is already almost off.
Small end cranks are easy peasy.

[AJ]

How about getting a bolt with 12mm threads and screwing it into the spark plug hole, to keep the crank from turning. Just have to make sure it is on a cycle where the valves are closed.

Not sure I would use a bolt to do this, but I *have* done the "rope trick" before on other engines and hadn't thought of this to lock the crank.

For those who don't know what the rope trick is (commonly used with aviation engines), you feed a length of soft rope into the spark plug hole on the compression stroke (both valves close). The rope will stop the piston from rising in the cylinder. If you're trying to get a nut or bolt off the crank or countershaft nut off, you need to go past TDC, feed the rope in, and then turn the crank backwards to lock it in that direction.

If it is spinning then it is already almost off.
Small end cranks are easy peasy.

The rotor is not loose and spinning, as the bike is still charging just fine. It's the little starter clutch (a freewheel clutch, or properly a "sprag clutch") that is not locking when the starter motor is running.

Maybe I'll do the rope trick, but generally I like to hold the parts still and not throw all that load up through the crank and rod bearings.

[bonanzadave]

Mine just did this and WAS still charging. The crank nut backed off far enough for the rotor / start clutch to slide out which then allowed the big idler gear to move out. Easy fix...just tighten the nut....except it ate-up the end of my crank and the taper inside the starter clutch. All that metal was in my oil filter.

[AJ]

Mine just did this and WAS still charging. The crank nut backed off far enough for the rotor / start clutch to slide out which then allowed the big idler gear to move out. Easy fix...just tighten the nut....except it ate-up the end of my crank and the taper inside the starter clutch. All that metal was in my oil filter.

Thanks for posting that, Dave. Scary stuff. Maybe it is the rotor that has worked loose. I just assumed it was the sprag clutch, which is often the case with the old CB-series Hondas. You just ramped up my paranoia factor a significant level!

[rustybronco]

I just assumed it was the sprag clutch,

Correction... It's not a sprag type clutch. I believe it would be a roller ramp (overrunning) clutch.

[blowerbike]

80-82 crank taper is evil and often damaged.
get the correct puller(large thread) and remove your rotor.

[Homie]

Looking through the manual, they call for a special tool to hold the alternator rotor to remove the locknut. Is there a home brewed alternative? I was thinking of using a strap wrench. Any tried and true methods?

I've used a large rubber strap wrench to hold the rotor while I loosened the nut. Got to clean the outside of the rotor good with alcohol (or some other cleaner) to get all the oil off so the strap wrench will get a good grip. Once the nut is off you will still need the special puller to separate the rotor from the crank with minimal damage (although in the past I have successfully used a four-jawed gear puller).

I have an extra stater-clutch off of an 82 1100E motor if you want to go used.

I never really understood the engineering rationale behind making the rotor a "press-fit" onto the crank. It seems that a key and key-way would have been much better and less problematic.

[chef1366]

I almost gurantee the bolt is loose and the rotor is spinning. Ask me how I know.
Unless you sheared all the bolts off the starter clutch where it bolts on the rotor which is a slight possibility.
This is nothing to be paranoid about and is an easy fix.

[blowerbike]

jaw pullers will destroy your rotor.
man...
an impact is all thats needed to get the nut loose...come on.
7/8 US socket fits pretty good to..

[AJ]

Just opened it up. The nut had worked loose, just like Bonanza Dave's bike. Crank end is a little chewed up, but not as bad as Dave's.

This is very similar to the "small end crank" or :"short crank" problem on the first gen Mazda Miata (1990-1992). In that case, it's the crank pulley that drives the cam belt and the main accessory belts and that comes loose under all the side load on the pulley. Worse, it uses a woodruff key, and the keyway gets beat to crap, sometimes the key shears in half. A fix for this was developed using Loctite 242 or 243 that has been replicated on many, many old Miatas. Here's a link for anybody who is interested. http://www.miata.net/garage/hsue/crank/loctite_2.htm

My plan is to dress up the shaft with a little emery, clean it well, use some LocTite on the shaft in addition to using LocTite on the nut. Acetone can be used to soften the LocTite on the shaft if I ever need to remove the rotor again.

[AJ]

Correction... It's not a sprag type clutch. I believe it would be a roller ramp (overrunning) clutch.

Correction taken. Thanks.

[AJ]

just curious, how would you 'inject' (?) the acetone for softening? Your only 'access' would be from the front, right?

(A decent (sturdy) puller and similar impact wrench would pop it off.)

You can dribble acetone along the crack and it will suck in by capillary action. Usually I would just heat it with a torch, but the rotor has magnets on it.

Just finished dressing the crank. About to clean and reassemble.

[Homie]

jaw pullers will destroy your rotor.
man...an impact is all thats needed to get the nut loose...come on.
7/8 US socket fits pretty good to..

Note that I said "in the past".

As I recall, when I did it, it didn't appear to damage the rotor at all. Put the puller on it, tensioned it up (not excessively) and then hit the puller center bolt with a ballpeen hammer. To my surprise, the rotor popped off on the first hit.

Sometimes you just have to improvise when you don't have the goods. A lot of times it works and you can get the job done. Other times it doesn't and you wind up with busted parts and knuckles. Guess I was lucky.

Since then I've added the correct puller to my tool box. If I ever have to do that job again I'll be properly equipped.

Liked the description of the selection and prep for Loc-Tite. Funny how everything in the service manual is "Suzuki....bond....lube....grease....etc". Like it's all proprietary Suzuki products or something. Good tip on the Loc-Tite.

Curious about the crank taper / rotor taper damage tolerance. Seems like everytime someone has to separate the rotor from the crank there is some kind of damage to either or both. What's the service limit tolerance? A judgement call? More Loc-Tite? Anybody ever have to replace the rotor or crank?