valve trouble--- keepers are hitting the bottom of the buckets

[exdirtbiker]

So I pulled the Beast apart, and found my low compression was "all in my head". { insert joke here }
I gave the head to my engine guy and he immediately said "I don't like the looks of these... buy new valves".
He didn't even get them out of the head yet, he was just looking at the tops of some valves: the keepers are polished / worn from contacting the underside of the bucket.
Any way this story can end without me buying new valves? or another head?

[GregT]

No. Either the keepers have pulled through the valve tips - in which case buy a lotto ticket cos you just got very lucky - or a PO has trimmed the tips to get valve clearance....and gone way too far.

[exdirtbiker]

It just keeps getting better....

we took the head apart today: the ex valve in the "bad" hole was never seated. part of the guide missing, too.

and... how do I tell if these are stock valve springs? I was told by PO that they were "heavy duty" and / or "special" to go with the Web 118 cams.
EDIT- TALKED TO KIBBLEWHITE, MAKER OF WEB CAM SPRING KIT VS-S10- MY SPRINGS ARE "PERFECT LG".
but since he also said it had a 1085 kit ( it don't) so I can't believe anything he said.

Here's some pics:

[Grimly]

You could take a known stock valve spring and see what deflection a lever has with a given weight on the end of it, when you mount it so that it bears down on the spring. Measuring the distances involved will tell you what the value is - then measure the unknown ones.
It involves making a little jig, but it would be simple enough.

[exdirtbiker]

I measured them... If I read the Clymer book correctly, the outer springs are .015" too short and the inners are .170" too long. ... huh??? Edit: they are in fact Web springs and are correct lg.

[exdirtbiker]

You could take a known stock valve spring and see what deflection a lever has with a given weight on the end of it, when you mount it so that it bears down on the spring. Measuring the distances involved will tell you what the value is - then measure the unknown ones.
It involves making a little jig, but it would be simple enough.

Not a bad idea - but I don't have any spares to measure against.

[chuck hahn]

Least its easy to change a guide. If it was my bike, it would be all new guides, seals, and valves. Have the seats cut and then figure out what shims youll need. Its not gonna be a cheap rebuild but it will be the last it will need if you keep up the adjustments on schedule.

[exdirtbiker]

in my "parts hunting" I came across some advice:
"With the keepers and upper retainer installed on the valve make note of how much the keeper sticks up past the top of the upper retainer. This portion of the keeper is basically unused excess material and there may be enough there that you can grind it down a bit to get the top of the keepers even with or below the top of the valve stem. I ran my GS-750 engine that way for years with turbo cams and had no problems with it."

I think it's do-able. Any reasons this is a "bad idea" ?

[chuck hahn]

The keepers are supposed to be below the top of the valve stems if everything with the valve and seats is within specs. Somethings amiss and It needs to be found. Go to Bikecliffs website and get a real manual. Clymers and Haynes are not the best repair manuals. And yes the keepers do stick a tad past the top of the spring retainer cap and they are supposed to.....but not stick above or impeed the top of the valve stems like what you are showing.

[Brendan W]

Hard to tell from the pic but are those keepers snug in the valve grooves? The grooves look a bit wide.

[exdirtbiker]

you have veerrrry good eyes sir.

My engine guy also said he didn't like how they moved up/down abit more than he is used to. ( He does all the shop work for local Napa, in his own garage. he does 2-3 auto heads a week. )

I have now flip-flopped back to "get another head or engine" - and found a 1980 G motor ... in Buffalo NY .... ROAD TRIP !!!

[exdirtbiker]

Oh... and once again ...

THANK YOU

to all at this awesome forum who continue to teach and guide us "amateurs"

[theDoktor]

If ya go to Buffalo, you're going to go right by where I live- about 1/4 mile north of the Thruway. Nearest exit is about 2 miles away.
Feel free to stop by and look over the spare head I have. We can tear it down on the spot if you're interested.

[exdirtbiker]

I PM-ed you yesterday.. what year/model bike ? I may be going up there Wed /thurs

[theDoktor]

My PM response yesterday didn't go thru. I'll try again.
Sorry 'bout that!