Secondary drive issue: 1100G

[Buffalo Bill]

After noting a slight knock I checked the secondary and final drive oil levels.
The secondary oil poured out the level opening continuously and was obviously diluted with engine oil.
Must be an O ring seal?
Any anecdotal advice?
Thanks!

[Redman]

<<bump>>

I have only some expereince (one occassion) with the secondary gears.
I didnt know much about them, and never wanted to see them, but I have now seen them (well the driven set anyway), and have learned a little bit about them.

THese diagrams, with my additional notes/sketch helped me learn what little I did learn.




My first thought, from my limited knowlodge, is that there isnt any seals on the secondary gears that would seal beteen the secondary case and the transmission/engine case.
But there might be such a seal on the transmission output shaft. I think it would be the transmission output shaft is what goes from the engine/transmission area into the secondary gear area.

The oring #8 would seal between the secondary case and the outside of the left side of engine (what see when remove cover to see weep hole), and the oring #20 would seal between the secndary case and the outside of the engine on back end ((what see when remove the shaft/swingarm).

Let my posting here be mostly a bump so someone with more knolodgable/experience might see the thread.

.

[Buffalo Bill]

Thanks Dave, your notes on the diagram helped me tell the difference between the drive and driven gears.
Your comment about the #20 O ring is correct.
Brian Wringer thinks the problem seal is #55 in this parts diagram, second shaft down.
Suzuki 1100G transmission

[Redman]

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Brian Wringer thinks the problem seal is #55 in this parts diagram, second shaft down.
Suzuki 1100G transmission

Well, I would add lots of credibility to anything he says and this diagnosis (and not beause it is consistent with my ignorant quess).
Yah, that seems like could be a seal between the transmission area and the secondary drive area (if shaft #32 is what goes into the secondary drive), but I cant tell by looking at these exploded views.

That shaft #32 looks like what has the splines on the end that would go into the "driven" secondary gear.




I have said that I have never wanted to see any of my secondary drive gears (but I have).
And I absolutly never want to see any of my transmission gears.


Other point:
You mentioned that you were investigating a "knock" when found situation with the engine oil in the secondary case.
The seal could be the cause of the oil situation, but what about the knock... must be some other problem, maybe the cause of this oil/seal problem.

Can pull the "driven" secondary gear set, out the side of the engine cases, to give you some "look see" into the secondary drive area.

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[Buffalo Bill]

Yes it was a very light knock. I felt it, but did not hear it. I almost thought it was a tire issue because of the timing, but tires ain't hard enough to knock

[bwringer]

Also check for excess crankcase pressure -- a blocked vent can push oil out the strangest places.

[Buffalo Bill]

That's my 1st test, the breather, then compression. Narrow down the issue.

[Buffalo Bill]

Opened up the breather cap, and all looks oily normal. Felt the blow-by puffing when I covered it with my hand. No problem with the hose.
Checked the compression cold, and it's the same as it was 21,000 miles ago; 125psi low to 135psi high.
Mileage is now 42,700 miles.
It would be the blow-by pressure in the case that would push the engine oil into the Secondary Drive case.

[Buffalo Bill]

Well, got an email from Ben in South Africa with some PDFs of an old (Feb 2013) thread concerning this issue: Mystery hole oil seepage - seal between secondary gear compartment. I even commented in this thread!!
Looks like the case needs to split and 3 oil seals replaced on the transmission shafts.
Spring #25 needs to be compressed, so seal #22 can be installed.
BF-JOB!!!

[Redman]

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and that posting has this good picture to show the transmission (in place) and the secondary drive assdemblys (laying out on the bench).
THis picture really explains some things to me (once I realised was looking at engine upside down with lower crankcase removed).

[Buffalo Bill]

Yeah, looks like the shafts with all their gears need to be lifted out, and gears slipped off so the seals can be replaced. Then put the puzzle back together the right way. No biggie…
The whole engine could be overhauled at this point.
As been said to me before by an engine builder; "If you're gonna do this, you might as well do that."

[Buffalo Bill]

Ok, not an emergency so I'm riding the bike and monitoring the oil levels in the 2ndary drive and crankcase.
I'll decide when to open up the engine after the summer.
Not detecting any bearing knock at this time. Measured the engine compression hot after a ride. Looks good, just the same as 21,000 miles ago.
Bought a small 500lb rated chain hoist from Harbor Freight. Looks like just the thing to lower the bike down on it's side, and lift the engine onto a cradle or work bench.
I can use this hoist for lifting a bike front end before removing the front wheel for service issues. Could have used this many times already!

[Buffalo Bill]

After a few careful tests of the secondary oil level after long rides, I'm coming to the conclusion that my original test was done wrong, and there's probably nothing wrong the the oil seals.
My first test I waited until the next day, but I rolled the bike out of the garage, then rolled it back into the garage to an open area and up on the center stand, then immediately removed the level check bolt. The gear oil was all turned up and covering all the gears and components, so it ran downhill and out the oil level hole.
Lately I've just pulled the bike up on the center stand without rolling it at all, and then opened the hole. The first time nothing came out, so I slowly poured 90 weight oil in until a drop started to form. That was about 200 miles ago.
Since then I monitor how much oil drains out in one minute, it's only a few drops.