Painters advice needed

[speedy400]

just wonderin how you got the title "professional" no offense or anything... i mean it in the nicest way... painting isn't as easy as people think, so many things can go wrong, and there are so many different variables to take into account...

hi, no offence taken, well my dad always taught me the defenition of a professional is someone that does it as their profession, aka is paid for doing that thing. I work at a custom airbrush shop for harley's, we put out about 500 sets a year with basically me, my boss, and the airbrush artist working. I usually do prep, primer, base, candies, simple flames, and all the buff work. dont get me wrong, I am still learning everyday, but I dont know.. thats what I do.-darren

[speedy400]

Please forgive me if this sounds critical but I'd be concern about using an aluminum-brazing rod on steel unless the rod is designed for just such a usage. Aluminum and steel have significantly different electro negativity’s so corrosion from electron swapping is a major concern with physical contact between dissimilar metals like this.

Regarding painting in general, I've done a fair bit of my own paintwork on various motorcycle and bicycle projects with good results. I've used rattle cans before but once I made the jump to a real spray gun I will NEVER go back. For small jobs like a motorcycle, a touch-up type guy works great since it's smaller and easier to clean. I spent a fair bit of money and bought a Sata Mini-Jet and LOVE it. Generic copies (Astro brand) of the SATA are available for about $60 or so and the quality is good from what I've heard. My compressor is an old 2HP / 20 gallon job with three different water separators on it to filter out the crud. For paint I like PPG automotive stuff - Deltron base coat, clear coat system. In particular, I use DP epoxy primer (two part system), DBC base coat, and 2001 clear (old school, high solids paint - NOT low VOC stuff). This paint is good stuff and truly professional looking results are easy to achieve.

Good stuff.

Hi, yeah I'll second the PPG, thats what we use also along with house of colors, yes it is expencive but the finished product for most jobs is extraordinary. ps, I cant remember but I think we use low voc clear or something, I always wondered what that exactly ment, can you shead some light on the subject for me? thx-darren

[J_C]

Hi, yeah I'll second the PPG, thats what we use also along with house of colors, yes it is expencive but the finished product for most jobs is extraordinary.

One thing I've been trying to figure out for both these places... how are you supposed to figure out the paint you want. It's like $60 for the HOK color sample book. PPGs you have to order from a distributor. If I wanted to match to a specific OEM car color that'd be easy but otherwise....

I guess I just don't see how HOK sells their product online through various outlets without having anything to reference. Sometimes people (like me right now) have an idea of what they want to do but need help with the implementation... three sizes of metal flakes, mutiple different lines of color. Yikes!

[retrex]

Not a problem

Please forgive me if this sounds critical but I'd be concern about using an aluminum-brazing rod on steel unless the rod is designed for just such a usage. Aluminum and steel have significantly different electro negativity’s so corrosion from electron swapping is a major concern with physical contact between dissimilar metals like this.
Good stuff.

This shouldn't be a problem. The factors required for corrosion due to the susceptibility of joining aluminum to steel don't support corrosion in this situation, see below website. The coatings on the outside and inside of the tank prevent any electrolyte from being present. My only concern was would the weld hold long enough for the U.S. Tank Sealer to cure making the weld superfluous.

As for the paint, I chose the POR stuff because it doesn't have the microscopic holes that all normally curing paints contain, the reason for most paint failure. The finish I am seeing up to this point is at least as good as, if not better, than factory OEM for looks but with much better protection from the elements.

http://www.roymech.co.uk/Useful_Tables/Corrosion/Cor_bi_met.html

[Nessism]

One thing I've been trying to figure out for both these places... how are you supposed to figure out the paint you want. It's like $60 for the HOK color sample book. PPGs you have to order from a distributor. If I wanted to match to a specific OEM car color that'd be easy but otherwise....

I guess I just don't see how HOK sells their product online through various outlets without having anything to reference. Sometimes people (like me right now) have an idea of what they want to do but need help with the implementation... three sizes of metal flakes, mutiple different lines of color. Yikes!

About 99% of all paint sold is for automotive repair, not custom repaint work, thus distributers don't need fance display chips to sell paint.

[Nessism]

Hi, yeah I'll second the PPG, thats what we use also along with house of colors, yes it is expencive but the finished product for most jobs is extraordinary. ps, I cant remember but I think we use low voc clear or something, I always wondered what that exactly ment, can you shead some light on the subject for me? thx-darren

VOC = Volatile Organic Compounds

Basically the amount of thinner in the paint which gets released to the air during spraying and curing.

Different paints have different VOC ratings such as 2.1 or 3.5. The other day my supply of clear ran out and the local paint supply shop set me up with some low VOC 2.1 Nason clear. This stuff has a much thinner viscosity than the high-solids clear I had been using thus no additional reducer is needed to thin it out for spraying. The spray out went well and the paint set-up very fast and did not have as much of a "thinner smell" to it compared to my regular paint. I've got almost a quart of this stuff left so I guess I'm on the low VOC train now...

[retrex]

Some new not so good images

http://img50.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dscf0066gm4.jpg

I think that the picture says it all. I dropped the tank. I was just about done with the final sanding before the clear coat and got a little careless. The bad news is I got a large ding in it. The good news is that the POR products do flex, there is no peeling or cracking. After I stop swearing I'll see if I can salvage this tank. I have one more practice tank so I am not sure how much more effort I will put into this tank. It still may turn out to be a decent rolling rebuild tank.

[J_C]

About 99% of all paint sold is for automotive repair, not custom repaint work, thus distributers don't need fance display chips to sell paint.

That makes sense for PPG, but isn't HOK almost all custom? Either way, I need some help

[wharrah]

i clear coated some engine cases with slear engine paint. It laid on smooth and gas does not seem to affect it. Duplicolor clear coat is another story, it melts under gas real easy.

I would REALLY REALLY Be interested in knowing what brand of rattle-can paint you recommended that would NOT die due to a drop of gas or two...

I also appreciate you telling me to stay away from Duplicolor... I need to do something to fix my horrible paint chunk missing from my tank from a couple years back. I do'nt have the money to pay to have it professionally painted again.

[duaneage]

I am currently in process of geting another CM400 tank because mine is just rusting away. In the meantime I will experiment with the clear engine paint I have and see how it goes.

I actually dipped aluminum cases painted with this stuff in gas and it still is OK.

[Nessism]

http://img50.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dscf0066gm4.jpg

I think that the picture says it all. I dropped the tank. I was just about done with the final sanding before the clear coat and got a little careless. The bad news is I got a large ding in it. The good news is that the POR products do flex, there is no peeling or cracking. After I stop swearing I'll see if I can salvage this tank. I have one more practice tank so I am not sure how much more effort I will put into this tank. It still may turn out to be a decent rolling rebuild tank.

Major bummer. Sorry.

If you are anything like me, the second tank will go much quicker and with even better results since you are "warmed up" now!

Good luck.

Ed

[speedy400]

A lot of the automotive paint supply shops have the color pallett books for most of the big brands from what I've seen.-darren

[rustybronco]

A lot of the automotive paint supply shops have the color pallett books for most of the big brands from what I've seen.-darren

My girlfriend works at a collision shop they have the chip charts (ppg) going years back, she brings them home for me to look at, plus the materials at cost. can't beat it!

[J_C]

Thanks Darren, I found a paint supply place that carries HOK stuff; they'll probably have the books.

Bronco, sweet deal man See if you can track down my medium gray :-\"

[retrex]

Going for the save

Attempting to snatch victory from the jaws of defeat.

http://img92.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dscf0070lm9.jpg

http://img147.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dscf0071bf8.jpg

http://img92.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dscf0072hc2.jpg

Stripes patched, black outlining pend.

http://img217.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dscf0075ij3.jpg

The pushed out ends of the dent prevent this from being a complete save. I was able to build out the area around the the front of the tank, but the one near the stripes would have required a much larger area of the stripe to be covered with filler. Since the bulge was not that large and peaked in between the stripes I left it as is. I think I may still be able to get a decent looking tank out of the deal.