Painting my 450

[pete]

Subject says it all really, a thread for painting my 450... and no, this ain't a poll, I already know the colour scheme and have purchased the paint

Bits to paint are the front and rear mudguards, fuel tank, seat trim, tail piece, exhaust bracket, and the tail light bracket.

The tail piece is raw fibreglass at the moment, so I need to stick some putty over that first.

The tank and tail light bracket I'll just sand back a bit so I won't have to prime them, but I have plastic primer for the guards and acrylic primer for the exhaust bracket and seat trim.

So here's what I got today:



The plastic primer and the single pack primer:



Now here's where I think I went wrong with the primer. The tech. data for the paint explicitly says don't use a 1K primer. So is single pack primer 1K primer? As in should I take it back and swap it for something else? The lady I spoke with when buying the paint said get an acrylic primer and it is an acrylic primer... I had to get this from a different shop to where I got the paint because the refinishing place only sold bulk primer and I only need to prime the tail piece and exhaust bracket.

Anyway, I got this putty a little while back for the tail piece:



This is the clear and thinners for it:



The colours and reducer:



The Matador Red Pearl is the base coat for the front guard, tank, seat trim, and tail piece. The black is for the rear guard, exhaust bracket, and tail light bracket, and the white will be for two lengthwise stripes down the tank and tail piece.

They gave me some mixing cups and these black/white checked card for checking the clear mixture before doing the actual spraying:



I already have some tack cloths around as well as plenty of gloves and sandpaper.

Now, courtesy of Leigh and Tim Tom's abilities with Photoshop type software, here's a mock up of the paint job:

[pete]

Now as to equipment to do the job, I bought a compressor just before Christmas last year which came with a free hose and HVLP gravity feed gun set. I know they're not the highest quality ones but given this is probably the only use they'll get it was a bargain.



2.5HP motor, 40 litre tank, 180 litres/minute free air delivery, so it should be up to the task I believe.

There's a 0.8mm small gun and both a 1.4mm and 1.7mm large gun as well as a pressure regulator:



However, there's already a regulator on the compressor itself, so not sure which I should rely on, but I'm guessing just using the built in one on the compressor should be fine:



The last piece of equipment I may use is this:



I have heard it is best to strain the paint into the gun before spraying, so is a normal household strainer like this good enough? Or is there some special strainer I should be using? Or am I off the garden path altogether?

Anyway, is there anything else I'm missing equipment wise or preparation wise?

Also, for masking off the base coat to put on the stripes, the tech. data lists a taping time of 20 - 45 minutes, so I'm assuming if I wait at least 45 minutes then I can safely mask it off and start the white stripes.

Any tips/pointers/advice/pointing and laughing is all welcome at this point

[Flyboy]

Wicked, looks like you all set to go, I am watching this one for sure, to pick up as many tips as I can.
Now please understand, I know nothing of this dark art and voodoo magic of mirror like paint jobs, so take my ramblings from where the come.
I would think that that strainer is maybe a bit coarse, you may want something like those little plastic tea strainers with the finer mesh.

And just remember not to rush it, the key is in the prep, if the prep is not 100%, no amount of paint in the world will cover the flaws, I see a LOT of sanding in your life.
Remember, that once you have sanded everything down, to where you think it is ready, lay a very fine (1 pass) check coat of colour on it, any imperfections will show right up, if you happy with it, put the primer down and start going to town.
Search out all Larry's posts and Ed's posts on his 1000S paint Job.
yes I know there are other members here who do excellent work, I am not excluding anyone, those are the two I can think of right now,

[rustybronco]

Now here's where I think I went wrong with the primer. The tech. data for the paint explicitly says don't use a 1K primer. So is single pack primer 1K primer? As in should I take it back and swap it for something else? The lady I spoke with when buying the paint said get an acrylic primer and it is an acrylic primer... I had to get this from a different shop to where I got the paint because the refinishing place only sold bulk primer and I only need to prime the tail piece and exhaust bracket.

If the manufacturer specs a 2 part primer (2K), that's what I would use. no sense playing junior chemist and finding out you have compatibility issues after it's been clear coated. you have the spray guns. why not buy a 1/2 litre of the recommended primer with the proper catalyst and spray it on.

[rustybronco]

I bought a compressor just before Christmas last year which came with a free hose and HVLP gravity feed gun set. I know they're not the highest quality ones but given this is probably the only use they'll get it was a bargain.

As long as they spray evenly and the metallic (pearl) is distributed correctly, yes.

2.5HP motor, 40 litre tank, 180 litres/minute free air delivery, so it should be up to the task I believe.

Depending on the gun's air requirements it may or may not be sufficient for what you intend. I've found you can't go by the manufacturers specs for air requirements on the cheaper guns. they tend to be a bit optimistic.

However, there's already a regulator on the compressor itself, so not sure which I should rely on, but I'm guessing just using the built in one on the compressor should be fine:

Personally I use a regulator at the gun. either way you still can tune (adjust) the spray gun with the regulator at either position; just try not to use both at once as it might be to restrictive towards air flow.

I have heard it is best to strain the paint into the gun before spraying, so is a normal household strainer like this good enough? Or is there some special strainer I should be using? Or am I off the garden path altogether?

Generally speaking, you would want to use one of those paper cone type filters that are intended for strain paint. they cost only a few cents each, I wonder why they didn't offer you a few?

[pete]

Wicked, looks like you all set to go, I am watching this one for sure, to pick up as many tips as I can.
Now please understand, I know nothing of this dark art and voodoo magic of mirror like paint jobs, so take my ramblings from where the come.
I would think that that strainer is maybe a bit coarse, you may want something like those little plastic tea strainers with the finer mesh.

And just remember not to rush it, the key is in the prep, if the prep is not 100%, no amount of paint in the world will cover the flaws, I see a LOT of sanding in your life.
Remember, that once you have sanded everything down, to where you think it is ready, lay a very fine (1 pass) check coat of colour on it, any imperfections will show right up, if you happy with it, put the primer down and start going to town.
Search out all Larry's posts and Ed's posts on his 1000S paint Job.
yes I know there are other members here who do excellent work, I am not excluding anyone, those are the two I can think of right now,

Cheers Stan, I don't expect this to end up anything even remotely like what Larry, Ed, TKent, and others have been able to do, but if I get it looking good from a couple of metres away I'll be happy

I think your vision of me sanding is probably very true, I intend to do the prep. as well as I possibly can. I learnt that with the temperature paint. The slightest missed bit will have that peeling off the second you apply heat to bake it.

Thanks for the tea strainer idea, I've got to go to the supermarket today so will check out the strainers up there.

At this point I really want to find a way to get the putty and primer done so on Monday the 10th I can get stuck into the actual paint. That way if I screw it up I will have time to redo it. If I end up starting on the Wednesday and screw it up, I'll be running out of time and this is something I don't want to rush!

If the manufacturer specs a 2 part primer (2K), that's what I would use. no sense playing junior chemist and finding out you have compatibility issues after it's been clear coated. you have the spray guns. why not buy a 1/2 litre of the recommended primer with the proper catalyst and spray it on.

See my noobishness is exposed already!

Thanks Dale, I was stoopidly confused with the whole 2K/two pack thing... that should've been blatantly obvious...

I definitely have no intention of trying this out in that case and will try to return it today, not sure if they'll let me do that with paint or not but I hope so!

I'm guessing that no 2K primer will come in a spray can right?

And also, with the plastic parts, does this mean I should use the plastic primer first, then do another coat of the 2K primer? I'll have to read the can closer...

[pete]

As long as they spray evenly and the metallic (pearl) is distributed correctly, yes.

Depending on the gun's air requirements it may or may not be sufficient for what you intend. I've found you can't go by the manufacturers specs for air requirements on the cheaper guns. they tend to be a bit optimistic.

That should be good to go, the large guns say 30 - 43 PSI, small gun 20 - 30 PSI, and the compressor has been good for that doing things like spraying out the carbs etc. and it's certainly quite low on the dial compared to the claimed maximum...

Personally I use a regulator at the gun. either way you still can tune (adjust) the spray gun with the regulator at either position; just try not to use both at once as it might be to restrictive towards air flow.

That makes sense actually. The regulator is right at your hand if you need to adjust it while spraying, as opposed to needing to go back and forth to the compressor.

Generally speaking, you would want to use one of those paper cone type filters that are intended for strain paint. they cost only a few cents each, I wonder why they didn't offer you a few?

I looked around their display area while I was there and didn't see any, but then we started talking about it in detail and it slipped my mind. I was planning on asking them... my sieve in my brain at work again... I really should've written a list! I'll look around today as I suspect I'll end up at a hardware store for the 2K primer...

Thanks for the input Dale, very much appreciated!

[Flyboy]

Pete, if you are dealing with a good automotive paint supplier, they will be able to give you 2K primer in a can, they mix it up and put it in the can for you, it is one of those two part cans that have the hardner and thinners int the bottom section and the paint in the top section.
You need to bang the plunger at the bottom, which punctures the seal between the two and the paint and hardner mix, shake and spray.
It is what I used on my frame, as I don't have a compressor, so it is all 2K in a can, including the primer.
Although if you have all the kit, not sure why you would want it in a can.
Just a bit of useless info, I thought the 2K cans were expensive compared to buying paint and using a compressor. Strange thing is, after I did the maths, it is actually cheaper over all to use the cans than a compressor and gun, and you getting the same quality product down on the bike, so I know which way I am going when it is time to paint.

You distract me, this evening after I finished the sanding on the back wheel, I found myself sanding a side cover.....and I ain't no where close to touching the clothes yet.....

[pete]

Pete, if you are dealing with a good automotive paint supplier, they will be able to give you 2K primer in a can, they mix it up and put it in the can for you, it is one of those two part cans that have the hardner and thinners int the bottom section and the paint in the top section.
You need to bang the plunger at the bottom, which punctures the seal between the two and the paint and hardner mix, shake and spray.
It is what I used on my frame, as I don't have a compressor, so it is all 2K in a can, including the primer.
Although if you have all the kit, not sure why you would want it in a can.
Just a bit of useless info, I thought the 2K cans were expensive compared to buying paint and using a compressor. Strange thing is, after I did the maths, it is actually cheaper over all to use the cans than a compressor and gun, and you getting the same quality product down on the bike, so I know which way I am going when it is time to paint.

You distract me, this evening after I finished the sanding on the back wheel, I found myself sanding a side cover.....and I ain't no where close to touching the clothes yet.....

Rumour has it there is a shop in Brendale (same suburb as the one I went to) that will put 2K in a can for you, but I haven't found it and the guys who keep telling me this also don't know the shop. I think it's an urban myth

I want to get a good hard quality finish especially on the tank for the inevitable fuel drops when filling up, so I avoided the standard enamels in spray cans, and unless that supposed shop magically appeared, compressor and gun is the only way for me.

In Brissie here (and Australia in general) we're generally 10 to 30 years behind when it comes to handy things like 2K in a can, online shopping, etc.

As for the distraction... yeah sorry 'bout that... been there done that! Haha

[laverda1200]

Painting a bike at home

Hi Pete

It is possible to do a pro paint job at home. Oddly enough, only about 5, maybe 10, per cent of the work is the actual spraying

I always take everything back to a bare surface when painting a motorcycle. Steel tanks can be stripped with aircraft paint stripper. Plastic and fiberglass can be bead blasted as long as you don't get too aggresive, just set the air pressure to the lowest that will still remove the paint.

Once you have bare surfaces, do your initial bodywork. Rage Gold is one of the best body fillers out there, easy to work and easy to sand. Don't worry about getting the bodywork absolutely perfect just yet, get the basics filled in.

for metal, spray an "etch" primer, for palstics sparay an adfhesion promoter. Don't bother sanding that coat. Then spary your first and second coats of "high build" primer. Then get out the say 180 grit, and sand lightly. The high build primer will have filled pretty much all of the smalller imperfections for you. Sand with progressively finer paper, to about 300 grit.

Always use a sanding block/pad, I prefer the dense foam rubber ones.

Whatever still needs work by this point will be fairly minor. Get some "body glazing putty", no more body filler as it is too coarse ,and use the glazing putty to coat the remaining imperfections. Sand these back to flush with say 300 grit, then check your surface finish by spraying degreaser over everything and wiping with a tack cloth.

if you still have any imperfections, time for a third and last coat of high build primer, which you should then be able to start sanding lightly with about 220 grit, finish off at about 300 grit, the sucker should be glass smooth by now.

once you are happy with your surface prep, time to spray colour. At least two light coats, maybe three, to the manufacturers spec, typicaly allow to flash maybe ten minutes between coats. The colour coat typically is not perfect no matter how hard you try, and no big deal if it isn't. If you have huge paint sags maybe, then let the colour coat dry overnight then sand, but usually you just go ahead with the clear coats.

for the clear coats, it is going to look like crap as it goes on. Sveral light coats are better than two really heavy coats, but wait for each coat to flash off the recomended time (the solvents to evaporate and the coat start to look dry).

after however many coats of clear, even if there are sags or even bugs or hair or dust, leave the bloody thing alone, I would leave it alone about two days. I really do mean it; leave the bloody thing alone, don't try to pick the dog hairs out of it, or whatever.

get a bowl of some sort, put a drop or two of dish soap in it, and fill it with cool water. Start wet sanding with about 600 grit, then go to 800, 1000, 1500, then 2000. The clear will be getting smoother and smoother, and duller and duller, although by 2000 grit it may be starting to shine a bit again. Don't panic, the purpose of the wet sanding is to eliminate the dust particles, dog hair, insects, runs and sags, etc. and to get the surface as smooth as possible, even if it isn't shiny yet.

get a power buffer, a foam polishing pad, and, and some fine cut polishing compound. Go at the surfaces at say 2,000 - 2,500 rpm with the fine cut, and watch a mirror develop in front of you. Then switch to a fresh foam polishing pad, and go at the surfaces with a proper machine glaze product and watch your show paint job come to life. Don't wax for about a month, you have to let the paint breathe while it continues to set up for quite some time after it is sprayed. months even.

At home in my garage when I am about to paint another motorcycle I typically build an 8 foot by 8 foot by 6 feet high temporary spray booth, wrap it in plastic wrap, cut a door and a vent, stick a box fan into the frame, and overpressure the make shift spray booth. A furnace filter over the box fan will keep the dust to a minimum.

use only the pressure regulator at the gun, uI take the regulator off the compressor itself and run full pressure/volume to the gun. The "trick" is to get the recomended pressure right at the gun inlet, continuosly. My HVLP gun needs 24 psi at the gun inlet, some need as high as 30 psi or more.

your 1.4 gun tip is OK, I ttypicaly use about a 1.3 to spray colour and clear, and a 1.8 or bigger to spray high build primer.

Hope some of this helps.

Paul

ps I can't find a spell checker here, surely there must be one somewhere?

[rustybronco]

That should be good to go, the large guns say 30 - 43 PSI, small gun 20 - 30 PSI, and the compressor has been good for that doing things like spraying out the carbs etc. and it's certainly quite low on the dial compared to the claimed maximum...

Rete, air pressure is only one part of the equation, you need air volume as well. it's the 'V' in hvlp that's used to break up the paint and solvent mixture. some guns marked hvlp are nothing more than old gravity guns marked as hvlp. for example... http://www.thegsresources.com/_forum...47&postcount=1 nothing wrong with that as long as it can lay out metallics properly, sprays evenly and you don't mind the extra costs for the wasted materials.

The compressor I've been using to paint with lately is rated at 195 litres/min @ 40 psi. I think you'll be alright with what you have as long as those guns aren't air hogs.

[pete]

Wow thanks Paul, that's... well a huge amount to digest right now in my little mind, but very helpful!

So... my front and rear guards have the existing colour impregnated into the plastic, so there's nothing to get rid of there.

The seat trim I'll have to check, not sure if it's the same deal or not.

The exhaust bracket is bare metal at the moment and has developed a couple of spots of surface rust which will be easily sorted.

So, with the tank and tail light bracket, if I choose not to go back to bare metal and instead make sure I take care to give it a really good go over with some 280 or 400 grit (I have lots of that handy already), will that be enough to get a decent colour base on? Or should I still be looking at some primer filler as well?

I was initially thinking of filling in the name badge mounting area, but I'm thinking I might stick with the badges after all and I'll just mask over the holes etc. there.

One thing I should probably add after reading replies is that the actual surface of all these bits is really good. There are no dings to fill or anything like that, everything is nice and straight. There is simply some very minor delamination of the clear in a couple of parts on the tank and the tail light bracket has some chips etc. but the actual surface smoothness is great...

Oh, and I also just read the label on the flexi/plastic primer, and it explicitly states it's suitable for 2K colour, so I'm good to go with that one.

[pete]

Rete, air pressure is only one part of the equation, you need air volume as well. it's the 'V' in hvlp that's used to break up the paint and solvent mixture. some guns marked hvlp are nothing more than old gravity guns marked as hvlp. for example... http://www.thegsresources.com/_forum...47&postcount=1 nothing wrong with that as long as it can lay out metallics properly, sprays evenly and you don't mind the extra costs for the wasted materials.

The compressor I've been using to paint with lately is rated at 195 litres/min @ 40 psi. I think you'll be alright with what you have as long as those guns aren't air hogs.

Aaaah thanks Dale! I understand what you're saying...

The large guns are 30 - 43 PSI and they say don't exceed 43 PSI, so I'm guessing if they're not HVLP then they should at least be lower pressure than that Harbor Freight one.

The small gun is 20 - 30 and they say don't exceed 30.

They are all adjustable as well for spray pattern, fluid, and air, so I'm guessing if they seem to be being an air hog I can always adjust that back a bit as well, providing of course I can pick that up while using it

At least if I pick up a 2K primer today that will give me some time with the guns before doing the colour and clear as well which will be great.

I'll also need to do some practise stuff on something too...

[pete]

Actually, so once the prep. work is done, does this mean I can actually do the painting all in one day?

By that I mean the base colour goes on, 2 to 3 coats, 10 - 15 min's between coats for flash off, wait 45 min's 'til dry then mask of for the stripes, repeat for stripes, wait another 45 min's then I can start the clear coat?

Is that right or should I leave the colour over night before doing the clear?

Going by those times, in theory I could be done in about 5 hours or so...

[rustybronco]

http://i594.photobucket.com/albums/tt26/starpoint73/GS450/The%20Paint%20Job/IMG_3447.jpg

Pete, I'm thinking you're going to have the same problems with those guns as I did with the harbor freight gun I bought. I suggest you take it apart and clean it REALLY good, then tighten up the nozzle and air cap well before you even attempt to use it.

when you are satisfied that it's clean and everything is properly tightened, find yourself a panel to test the gun out on. if you like what you see in the spray pattern, go ahead and use it. if you don't, find another gun to use. there's no sense wasting your time and materials on a gun that doesn't spray correctly. it's hard enough trying to get a good finish the first time without having to fight an incorrectly spraying gun.

chances are if you get it clean and adjusted correctly, it will give you a finish you might be fairly satisfied with. maybe even a 'looks good' @ one metre paint job!!!