Painting my 450

[pete]

Ouch!



Got a refund on the 1K primer today and finally tracked down a reasonable quantity of 2K primer. By reasonable I mean 1 litre... 500mL would've been too much... and $62 later I had it The paint was cheaper!

I also got more masking tape (can never have enough right?), a cork sanding block (all I could find, no fancy schmancy ones here), and some applicators for the putty.

Anyway, I guess now I know what to do with prep'ing the tank... strip her bare and prime away, so all in all it's probably better that I got it this way...

Idiot me totally forgot to ask for some paint strainers too, so still need to get some of them.

And time for more stupid questions... I need to get some sort of generic thinners or solvent for cleaning right? And I should clean the nozzles on the guns between coats? And I should only mix enough for the coat I'm doing and mix a fresh batch for the next coat right?

I realise this thread is going to be tedious right now, but hopefully it will get more interesting once the stupid questions are asked and the work actually begins...

[pete]

http://i594.photobucket.com/albums/t...b/IMG_3447.jpg

Pete, I'm thinking you're going to have the same problems with those guns as I did with the harbor freight gun I bought. I suggest you take it apart and clean it REALLY good, then tighten up the nozzle and air cap well before you even attempt to use it.

when you are satisfied that it's clean and everything is properly tightened, find yourself a panel to test the gun out on. if you like what you see in the spray pattern, go ahead and use it. if you don't, find another gun to use. there's no sense wasting your time and materials on a gun that doesn't spray correctly. it's hard enough trying to get a good finish the first time without having to fight an incorrectly spraying gun.

chances are if you get it clean and adjusted correctly, it will give you a finish you might be fairly satisfied with. maybe even a 'looks good' @ one metre paint job!!!

Haha, seems we keep posting at the same time the other is typing

Yes I read that thread very closely and figured I would pull these apart and give them a good clean first, I definitely don't want something simple like that getting in the way of the painting.

I get what ya' sayin'... I'll do what I can to make sure they spray good enough for the job, although chances are I may not pick it up if they don't... but fingers crossed!

If I can get a 1 metre paint job I'll be stoked

[rustybronco]

Pete, I could have posted you some 2K primer for a LOT less than $62. (choke, choke, cough...) my wife's work gave me about 3+ Litres of the stuff for free; all I had to do was buy the catalyst.

***edit*** although not completely necessary, some generic thinners to clean the gun with would be nice. what you will need is a wax and grease remover. you put it in spray bottle, spritz it onto the surface and immediately wipe it off with a clean cloth while it's still wet. always wipe it off in the same direction. I even have even used one part 'simple green' to two parts water as a W&G remover, primer stage on up per a tip I was given by a painter here.

[pete]

Pete, I could have posted you some 2K primer for a LOT less than $62. (choke, choke, cough...) my wife's work gave me about 3+ Litres of the stuff for free; all I had to do was buy the catalyst.

Yeah the prices here are insane! I could've got 4 litres from the mob I got my paint from for $130 yesterday but what would I have done with about 3 1/2 litres of 2K primer? Oh well I have it now

I also found Ed's thread on his two tone paint and Larry posted on there that he leaves a day between colours, leaves the white until last, then clears straight after the white.

That should actually work well for me as the bulk will be maroon, so I can do that and the black on the first day, then mask and do the white on the second day followed by clearning the lot.

I think I'm starting to get some of this into my thick head at last...

[pete]

So for masking, I initially thought masking tape and newspaper... more searching says bad idea.

So should I be looking for something more like this?

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/2-ROLLS-HAND-MASKING-FILM-PLASTIC-TAPE-1-1M-WIDE-/300601010113?pt=AU_Car_Parts_Accessories&hash=item45fd3767c1#ht_2762wt_905

I realise that's huge but is the first thing that popped up and I'll be trying to find something a little more appropriate to the size of the pieces...

Edit: Found one a bit more appropriate and even has free postage, looks right does it?

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/TRADESMEN-QUALITY-Masking-Paper-Mask-Right-75mm-x-400M-/220854741694?pt=AU_Car_Parts_Accessories&hash=item336bf7eabe#ht_1742wt_1139

[rustybronco]

Pete, you'll go pro in no time!!!

And I should clean the nozzles on the guns between coats? And I should only mix enough for the coat I'm doing and mix a fresh batch for the next coat right?

No, clean the gun when you are finished with each material used. not needed between coats unless you wait so long between coats that the paint starts to harden.

mix enough paint for what you intend on using for the complete stage, not just for each coat. mix enough base for 2~3 coats... enough clear for 2 coats... ect.

[pete]

Pete, you'll go pro in no time!!!

No, clean the gun when you are finished with each material used. not needed between coats unless you wait so long between coats that the paint starts to harden.

mix enough paint for what you intend on using for the complete stage, not just for each coat. mix enough base for 2~3 coats... enough clear for 2 coats... ect.

Haha I like your confidence Dale! Maybe some will rub off on me once I've started

Cool, I thought it was a big task to be cleaning between coats... flash off time is 10 to 15 minutes so that was gonna be a huge rush to give it a quick clean, mix a new batch, and get ready to spray in that time frame...

I really am thinking I'm getting my head around this finally, or at least I hope I am!

[rustybronco]

So for masking, I initially thought masking tape and newspaper...

I think butcher paper or a plastic wrap like you get from the cleaners would be just fine for what little bit you need.

[laverda1200]

Actually, so once the prep. work is done, does this mean I can actually do the painting all in one day?

By that I mean the base colour goes on, 2 to 3 coats, 10 - 15 min's between coats for flash off, wait 45 min's 'til dry then mask of for the stripes, repeat for stripes, wait another 45 min's then I can start the clear coat?

Is that right or should I leave the colour over night before doing the clear?

Going by those times, in theory I could be done in about 5 hours or so...

Hi Pete

if you can, best to keep going with appropriate flash off time between coats. There are various chemical reactions going on, if you leave the colour coat overnight for example you should do a light sand to scuff it up a bit before going on to clear. If you just wait the flash off time, no need to sand. And yes, once you are ready to spray, set aside enough continuos time to be able to keep going to the end if possible.

pretty much most colour paint is going to be "reduced" at whatever ratio. Reduce the entire btach at once for consistency. Reduced is not catalyzed, no chemical reaction as such, just a dilution, and stays good in the can for months..... Clear coat on the other hand is catalyzed, when you add in the activator you start the chemical reaction, which ultimately causes the stuff to turn hard, so don't catalyze a huge amount of clear at once, only do enough for at most a couple of coats, easy to catalyze more as needed.

it is important to let the final clear coat sit for at least two days before you start on wet sanding, it needs time to at least partialy set up but will still be "soft" enough to easily work after say 48 hours or so.

if you haven't sprayed with your HVLP gun before, practice setting up the spray pattern and material volume, get the air pressure set up right, spray some test panels. The gun manufacturer will tell you how far away or how close to be from the material, the newer HVLP guns are sprayed close, say 8 inches or so. Always start your spray run off the piece and continue all the way through to off the other side wherever possible. Don't be drawn into laying the material on too heavily, several thinner coats are always better, learn to quit while you are still ahead......

perfect surface prep and good adhesion are the basics, then the final wet sand and polish are the icing on the cake, the actual spraying is the least of the work. You can do better than many pro painters working from your own garage if you prep properly, and wet sand and polish at the end, your aspirations for something to look good from a meter away are far too low, you should see some of the paint jobs I have done from my home as a hobby, over this past summer I did a 1979 Laverda 1200 Mirage in orchid green, with prismatic flake in the first two coats of clear, then gold flake in the next two coats of clear, then 4 more coats of clear clear, then wet sanded and polished, the sucker is absolutely glass smooth and mirror shiny. I also did a 70's Kawasaki in fire engine red with silver flake, same result, better than most pro shops, and I am just a home hobbyist.

Paul

[pete]

I think butcher paper or a plastic wrap like you get from the cleaners would be just fine for what little bit you need.

Aaaah butchers paper! Good call, I'll try to track some down and yeah I only need a couple of metres really. That plastic would be good too although I think paper might be easier to work with. I figured 400M of masking paper was somewhat over kill

Hi Pete

if you can, best to keep going with appropriate flash off time between coats. There are various chemical reactions going on, if you leave the colour coat overnight for example you should do a light sand to scuff it up a bit before going on to clear. If you just wait the flash off time, no need to sand. And yes, once you are ready to spray, set aside enough continuos time to be able to keep going to the end if possible.

it is important to let the final clear coat sit for at least two days before you start on wet sanding, it needs time to at least partialy set up but will still be "soft" enough to easily work after say 48 hours or so.

if you haven't sprayed with your HVLP gun before, practice setting up the spray pattern and material volume, get the air pressure set up right, spray some test panels. The gun manufacturer will tell you how far away or how close to be from the material, the newer HVLP guns are sprayed close, say 8 inches or so. Always start your spray run off the piece and continue all the way through to off the other side wherever possible. Don't be drawn into laying the material on too heavily, several thinner coats are always better, learn to quit while you are still ahead......

perfect surface prep and good adhesion are the basics, then the final wet sand and polish are the icing on the cake, the actual spraying is the least of the work. You can do better than many pro painters working from your own garage if you prep properly, and wet sand and polish at the end, your aspirations for something to look good from a meter away are far too low, you should see some of the paint jobs I have done from my home as a hobby, over this past summer I did a 1979 Laverda 1200 Mirage in orchid green, with prismatic flake in the first two coats of clear, then gold flake in the next two coats of clear, then 4 more coats of clear clear, then wet sanded and polished, the sucker is absolutely glass smooth and mirror shiny. I also did a 70's Kawasaki in fire engine red with silver flake, same result, better than most pro shops, and I am just a home hobbyist.

Paul

Hmmmm see that makes sense too...

There are tips in there as to distance from surface etc. so I'll be reading more thoroughly yet.

Larry says he waits overnight before doing the next colour specifically to stop tape marks from the masking. The tape off time is 20 - 45 min's with this paint. So you think that's safe enough without leaving tape marks? As it is there'll only be the two stripes being masked for, not anything complicated.

Then after the white, I'm assuming the tape time is also what I'd be best leaving before removing the tape and clearing. Make sense?

My whole issue at the moment is a complete lack of self-confidence in doing a good job, but I will certainly be putting the prep. and follow up effort in to get the best results I can.

Those paint jobs sound great! If I can achieve something like that then I will be even more than stoked

Thanks again for these replies guys, I'm starting to get a grip in my head which is helping no end

[Flyboy]

Hey Paul

I did a 1979 Laverda 1200 Mirage in orchid green, with prismatic flake in the first two coats of clear, then gold flake in the next two coats of clear, then 4 more coats of clear clear, then wet sanded and polished, the sucker is absolutely glass smooth and mirror shiny. I also did a 70's Kawasaki in fire engine red with silver flake, same result, better than most pro shops, and I am just a home hobbyist.

[pete]

Haha good call Stan!

I just had another thought on masking... what about the glossy junk mail they stick in the paper? It's that real glossy paper like magazine pages, so if i was to put three or four layers of that down I can't see any paint penetrating that and I would think it would be just as good as butcher's paper in that regard.

If that will work, I already should have plenty in the garage with my newspaper stash

Oh, and I think I need to work out some sort of stand for the paint gun between coats too, don't fancy standing around holding it like a moron... actually I should say I don't need to do that to look like a moron, do that all by myself... haha

[rustybronco]

if you can, best to keep going with appropriate flash off time between coats. There are various chemical reactions going on, if you leave the colour coat overnight for example you should do a light sand to scuff it up a bit before going on to clear. If you just wait the flash off time, no need to sand. And yes, once you are ready to spray, set aside enough continuos time to be able to keep going to the end if possible.

Pete, you can never go wrong with the manufacturers recommendations. if they say you can re-coat or top coat up to 24 hours, then you have at least 24 hours to tack it off and re-coat. read the Technical Data Sheets.

Don't be drawn into laying the material on too heavily, several thinner coats are always better, learn to quit while you are still ahead......

excellent advice!

I just had another thought on masking... what about the glossy junk mail they stick in the paper? It's that real glossy paper like magazine pages, so if i was to put three or four layers of that down I can't see any paint penetrating that and I would think it would be just as good as butcher's paper in that regard.

as long as it's dust free and the solvents don't cause the ink to run, I don't see an issue with it. I've painted many things using newsprint as masking paper in the past. just watch out for the dust...

Oh, and I think I need to work out some sort of stand for the paint gun between coats too, don't fancy standing around holding it like a moron...

I use a nail driven into the end of my saw horse to hang my gun when not in use. if the distance between gun body and the trigger is wide enough I even 'hang' it on the back of a chair from time to time.

[rustybronco]

http://i594.photobucket.com/albums/tt26/starpoint73/GS450/The%20Paint%20Job/IMG_3442.jpg

are you sure this is a fuel resistant paint? why do I get the feeling it's acrylic lacquer not a ??-urethane? possibly because it says dura-lac?

BeroBase 500 http://debeer.com.au/products/basecoats/berobase

500 Series is a basecoat that must be finished with a 2-pack clear coat

[apopleptic]

I'm pretty excited to see how you turn out here Pete.
Also, I forget where, but I read you can use aluminum foil to mask off large areas.
I've done a little painting and never once had it make the ink run on the foil, or had it soak through!