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ethanol good or bad

alke46

alke46

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it seems that as of last night anyway, BP silver and regular now both contain 10% alcohol. This can't be good for our GSs can it? And they were both priced the same. I used to pay .10 per gal. more for the regular to avoid alcohol but now they are the same price----and for what?

The only way to avoid this dilemma was to purchase premium with 91 octane. These bikes run great on 87, so isn't 91 overkill. It was also .40 per gallon higher:mad:.

This happened yesterday here in Nebraska. Don't know if this is going to be the new norm or not. I had heard this was coming down the pike now I guess it is reality.

What do we do to neutralize the effects of alcohol in our fuels? Any suggestions?

Thanks,

Larry
 
Blame it on the corn lobby- ethanol gets huge subsidies, lots of money at stake here. You're lucky that you had been able to get ethanol free gas so long- most of us have been forced to gorge on 10% for years. There was talk of 15% ethanol, so get ready. Don't let this gas sit unstabilized in your carbs for long. I have good luck with Stabil over winter- actually this riding season ,I've been adding small dose every other tank, cuz it's cheep! Anything to avoid carb fun.
 
Hate ethanol.:mad: Less BTUs and major damage can occur to some engines not designed for it. I have a 1990 Nissan 300ZX Twin Turbo that just eats injectors every few months because of ethanol. I have to disconnect the battery so this doesn't happen. One of the biggest issues with ethanol is it absorbs water and transports water throughout your fuel system. Ends up creating issues with electrolysis.

On the GS I would imagine water, corrosion and o-ring degradation (if non viton) would be your biggest issues.

Ethanol gives lower gas mileage as well. And don't even get me started about it being a "GREEN" fuel since it takes more energy to produce the ethanol then it generates so it actually produces more "carbon units" then if you just burnt gas.

Don't go too high on octane if you an avoid it. GS's don't need it and it can actually lower milage and performance. Ethanol does have one redeaming factor... Higher potential octane for engines that can take advantage of it. Not the GS though.
 
Why not splurge and spend the extra $1.50 a tank for the good stuff. Id rather spend the money then OH the carbs myself
 
the extra $1.50 or so per tankful is not the issue here. I just remember a while back someone stating a few negatives about the 91 octane. Maybe not really a negative but just not necessary for our old GSs.
 
Just be glad you can still get none ethanol fuel. In GA it's darn near impossible. 91 octane wont hurt the bike since it's within spec but will not give you any benefits and may give you slightly lower performance.
 
JTGS850GL said:
I have a 1990 Nissan 300ZX Twin Turbo that just eats injectors every few months because of ethanol. I have to disconnect the battery so this doesn't happen.
Click to expand...

:confused: huh? .... :-k ... :-s .... what? :confused:

Please explain that one...
 
My Boat engine (3.0l mercruiser) manual is explicit that only non-oxygenated fuel be used. There is even a placard right on the fuel cap. 14 years later and 100s of tank fulls of 87 pump gas and it still runs like a champ. Even the rubber ducts from the transom to the lower unit are still pliable. I do use seafoam and stabil.

Same with the Bike. No ill effects noticed using 87 pump gas.
 
The issue with the 300zx is that one leg of the injectors are always tied to battery + 12V. The other is switched by the ECU. The problem is that the water transported by the ethanol is conductive and creates a path to ground. Over time the electrolysis damages the injector coil and the result is an open injector. By disconnecting the battery I can eliminate the electrolysis issue but it's a royal PITA.
 
Never had an issue with E10 in my cars (all FI). The problem with ethanol as noted is that it's hygroscopic. Anything with carburetors will have atmospheric venting and the ethanol can attract the water right out of the air. A lot will depend on how long you take to go through your gas.

Seafoam is supposed to be a good stabilizer for oxygenated fuels. I have not had any issues. Then again I have a nearby Pure station and can get the ethanol-free in 87 (albeit about a 10% premium). And for my stuff with carbs I do.

Ethanol has about 2/3 the energy content of gasoline, so at 10% ethanol you'll be down about 3% the energy potential of E0. BTW, car manufacturers all do their EPA testing with E0, of course :rolleyes:

Ethanol can take much more compression than gasoline, so a motor specifically designed to run on ethanol can come very close to the fuel efficiency of gasoline. Sugar is much better at corn for ethanol production, which is why it's been pretty successful in Brazil. The energy recovery of ethanol is no longer negative, that was old info (might not be far from break-even, I don't have good specifics I just know it's not negative). BTW, gasoline has the same issue; it takes energy to go get it out of the ground and refine it. Some crops (like switchgrass) are being genetically modified to make it easier and more energy efficient to make ethanol out of them; this would also allow more geographically disperse ethanol production and less interference with potential food production.

Not a fan of ethanol, just pointing out a few of the (more recent) facts.
 
Facts... That's fun. Do you drive any pre E10 vehicles? I do. The reality is that, in the USA, ethanol production is restricted to corn fermentation and not sugar cane so it gives countries like Brazil benefits that WE have to pay for. As stated above, the lobbyists have forced the US to produce ethanol through an inferior process that is NOT energy positive and produces a product that will damage older engine designs like mine while taking away from food sources. I know because I've paid several hundreds to fix what should have never been broken and verified that the damage was due to electrolysis from water intrusion into the injectors from E10. Thank your politicians for giving into the "GREEN ENERGY" Bull S!#t. The reality is we are sitting on the best source of oil and natural gas production but we can't use it because it's politically not correct. Now COAL is a four letter word and "Clean Coal" can't even be discussed even though the science is there to implement it. All this just P!$$es me off since it's SO avoidable.
 
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I've more issues with landscaping and farm equipment then autos, although my '66 vehicles have not had a lot of 10% run through them. Every year now I end up replacing the fuel lines and filters in chainsaws, weedwackers and trimming tools. I've got a Gravely two wheel tractors that have more carb issues then they ever had. We never had maintenance issues like we've had over the last 10 years.

Coming from working in the auto manufacturing industry for the last 30 years, and a former owner of Archer Daniels Midland stock, this is really a bad idea despite the advances made in the production of the ethanol. Every new regulation issued by the EPA should have a realistic cost-benefit analysis done and approved by at least congress, although I would rather see a public vote (non-lobby influenced) if the public would bother to read what's in it.
 
From my experience, any engine's performance is enhanced by adding alcohol to gasoline -- especially small engines and extra especially, small, two-stroke engines.

The problem with ethanol gasoline is it's "shelf life." The older it gets, the more problems it creates and that is a major issue for old motorcycles (and lawn equipment) that don't get used on a daily basis.

The alcohol attracts water and when left to sit over time can cause damage to carburetor finishes and fuel lines.

Most modern fuel components and fuel lines (tygon) are being made to accommodate ethanol.
 
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Katarat said:
Why not splurge and spend the extra $1.50 a tank for the good stuff. Id rather spend the money then OH the carbs myself
Click to expand...
Are you saying it's "the good stuff" because it's ethanol-free or because it's 91 octane?

Personally, I would rather run 87-octane gas with ethanol than 91-octane "premium" gas for any of the vehicles that I run on a daily basis.

Higher-octane fuels burn slower, so ignition timing needs to be advanced to light the fire at the proper time. Without that advanced timing, peak pressure inside the combustion chamber happens too late to do the job properly and you actually get less power in the process.

"Higher octane" does not mean "more energy", either. A gallon of high-octane fuel contains fewer BTUs than a gallon of regular, assuming similar amounts of ethanol in both samples.

.
 
JTGS850GL said:
The issue with the 300zx is that one leg of the injectors are always tied to battery + 12V. The other is switched by the ECU. The problem is that the water transported by the ethanol is conductive and creates a path to ground. Over time the electrolysis damages the injector coil and the result is an open injector. By disconnecting the battery I can eliminate the electrolysis issue but it's a royal PITA.
Click to expand...

Have you thought about a racing type shut off switch Or hook up the injectors 12 supply to a relay ?
 
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Bottom line here is this, is there a special blend of sta-bil just for ethanol? Or do we use seafoam as an additive? I thought I had read something about that but can't be sure.
 
Yes, there is an "ethanol blend" Sta-Bil.

What is it you are trying to do with it?

If you are wanting to add it, a little at a time, to every tank of fuel, it is my opinion that you will be wasting your money.
But at least it's your money, not mine. :-\\\

For winter storage, I have (almost) always used the "regular" Sta-Bil, because I was only recently made aware of the ethanol blend version. I tried Seafoam for winter storage one year, let's just say I am back to using Sta-Bil.

There are some that claim better performance by adding an ounce or three with every fill-up, but I find that a bit awkward to try. Yeah, some of us have storage on the bike, but for those that don't, try wrestling with a partly-used bottle of fluid every time you go out for a ride and see how long that stays in use. Even though I have TONS of storage space available on either of my bikes, I don't add anything to the fuel on any kind of a regular basis. Once or twice a summer, I might add a can of Seafoam or Techron Fuel Injection Cleaner, but nothing regularly with every tank.

Just a reminder, but a few posts above this was a notice that you are among the last in the country to be "blessed" with ethanol-enriched fuel. Don't worry about it, just make sure you don't accidentally add E85, you will be just fine.

.
 
I've seen a few stations around here with 15% ethanol :(. I avoid those with both my car and my bike.
 
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