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    Heavy Smoke, No Power

    Greetings all,

    It's been a few weeks since I was last online here... much has changed in life, and I've been struggling to stay on top of everything... But it's quieted lately, and now I turn my attention back to my 81 GS1000.

    I have a couple of questions I hope you all can help me with... If these have been answered elsewhere, I do apologize, but I didn't see anything related to the idle mixture screws, apart from broken needles etc.

    First - I got the GS1000 running, but have a major problem. It will idle just fine, a little rough at first but once it warms up the throttle response is immediate and there's no hesitation before returning to idle speed. When I took it on the test ride, it would not accelerate. Acted like it was bogged down and struggling to run. After a few minutes of riding I was hoping it would have warmed up or whatever the hell it needed to do but it only got worse, I was told later by a friend who passed me by, my right pipe was spouting black / blue smoke.

    There are no issues with that cylinder - cursory inspection shows no scoring of the walls that would indicate a broken piston ring, and there does not appear to be any oil in the cylinder that would burn and blow black smoke. I had this problem before when I was... ashamedly, trying to set my idle mix with a carb sync tool. It was early on, and I was still learning what I was doing with the mixture. The result was one way overrich cylinder and others in varying degrees of wrong.
    This makes me suspect it is an issue with the #4 carburetor, as this is the one that had the snapped idle mix screw tip stuck inside, along with stripped screw top. I had to drill the screw and remove it very slowly and carefully, and was able to remove the stuck tip with no problems. The screw that I have ordered THREE TIMES NOW is very different than the one that came out... Which leads me to my next question.

    Second - The idle mixture screws that come with these carbs are pretty uniform in design, tapering down a point with no shoulders or deviations. The ones that I keep ordering from the dealers are brass, not stainless steel like my old ones, and the new ones have a second shoulder leading to a more conical taper, unlike the originals which are quite obviously different.
    http://www.cycleorings.com/bl2.jpg ( sorry, I can't remember how to Link a picture!)
    ^ That's what I wanted, but the damn dealer keeps sending me this brass POS. Could this be my problem? If so, can I replace all the others so they're all identical, or do I need the original? If I need the original where in the bloody hell do I get them? I keep ordering from different shops using what I thought was my OEM serial number, but keep getting these freaking brass ones! I called once, emailed twice, and by now they won't even reply to me - apparently I'm being unreasonable by asking for the correct dang part!

    Anyhow, is this what could be causing the smoking and lack of power?

    I don't currently have access to my bike, it's locked up in the shop, I've gotta go get a constable to get my things out.. (Civil dispute, yaaay) But until then I'm trying to identify the problem so that when I have the bike back, I can get right to work.

    If you need more info, ask away and I'll provide whatever I can from memory or from notes.

    Have a great evening folks, thanks for stopping by!

    *I posted something similar in the GS1000 thread I started a while back, but I didn't realize it'd been moved, so here we are!

    #2
    I'm not certain you can buy the mixture screws separately as the come in the carb body and sealed over with an aluminum plug.

    What part number did they sell you?

    Also, have you given thought to finding a used one instead?
    De-stinking Penelope http://thegsresources.com/_forum/sho...d.php?t=179245

    http://www.thegsresources.com/_forum...35#post1625535

    Comment


      #3
      Can you give us a little more detail as to what the history of your carbs are?

      Have they been completely stripped, dipped and cleaned with new O-rings? Float level checked?

      Have you performed a compression check?
      http://img633.imageshack.us/img633/811/douMvs.jpg
      1980 GS1000GT (Daily rider with a 1983 1100G engine)
      1998 Honda ST1100 (Daily long distance rider)
      1982 GS850GLZ (Daily rider when the weather is crap)

      Darn, with so many daily riders it's hard to decide which one to jump on next.;)

      JTGS850GL aka Julius

      GS Resource Greetings

      Comment


        #4
        Isn't Z1 selling those mixture screws now, pretty sure they are. It might be overly rich but that doesn't explain the blue smoke unless your vacuum synch is way off, I've heard of guys fixing their synch and the smoke disappears. Get the proper screw (Z1), synch the carbs if not already and see what it does. If it's still smoking maybe you've put your piston rings and oil ring in the wrong positions, like I did! poor power, smoke, etc...
        Rob
        1983 1100ES, 98' ST1100, 02' DR-Z400E and a few other 'bits and pieces'
        Are you on the GSR Google Earth Map yet? http://www.thegsresources.com/_forum...d.php?t=170533

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by rustybronco View Post
          I'm not certain you can buy the mixture screws separately as the come in the carb body and sealed over with an aluminum plug.

          What part number did they sell you?

          Also, have you given thought to finding a used one instead?
          The screws were not plugged when I rebuilt the carbs, they may have been removed by previous owner...

          Exact part number, I'll get back to you on that - I left the packaging and the receipt in the shop

          Originally posted by JTGS850GL View Post
          Can you give us a little more detail as to what the history of your carbs are?

          Have they been completely stripped, dipped and cleaned with new O-rings? Float level checked?

          Have you performed a compression check?
          Right... Rebuilt completely, new o-rings, new screens, cleaned out entirely, dipped twice, cleaned using the "specialty tool" very thoroughly. Replaced all o-rings, replaced rubber plugs, checked float levels, brand new intake boots and o-rings.

          Compression check, yes - about 120 psi across the board.

          Originally posted by azr View Post
          Isn't Z1 selling those mixture screws now, pretty sure they are. It might be overly rich but that doesn't explain the blue smoke unless your vacuum synch is way off, I've heard of guys fixing their synch and the smoke disappears. Get the proper screw (Z1), synch the carbs if not already and see what it does. If it's still smoking maybe you've put your piston rings and oil ring in the wrong positions, like I did! poor power, smoke, etc...
          I'll check Z1, but the problem I'm encountering is all contemporary vendors selling the weird brass screws. The sync was correct according to the idle mixture - however that doesn't mean anything. Mix could be wrong, meaning when I fix that my sync will be way off again. Piston rings were done correctly, of that I am almost certain. I followed the exact same steps and double checked my work while I was rebuilding the gs850...

          I'll go check z1 right now and update this post with what I find, thank you!

          Update: That's a negative on z1 as well.. they have a new one that I haven't seen before, but it's still not the same style as my original =[

          Update 2: Actually, MAYBE! I'm looking at the new one, and while it's at a weird angle it look like it might be a match! I printed that page to save just in case I lose the link. Thank you!
          Last edited by Guest; 03-05-2014, 02:20 AM.

          Comment


            #6
            I bought some from Mr. Robert Barr for a different set of carbs.
            GS\'s since 1982: 55OMZ, 550ES, 750ET, (2) 1100ET\'s, 1100S, 1150ES. Current ride is an 83 Katana. Wifes bike is an 84 GS 1150ES

            Comment


              #7
              Black smoke is rich fuel, oil smoke is blue/white.

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by Maddevill View Post
                Black smoke is rich fuel, oil smoke is blue/white.
                As soon as I get the bike back in my possession, I'm going to see for myself what color it is... I hope like hell it's not blue.

                Comment


                  #9
                  Changing your mixture screws does not change your vacuum synch. Only making changes in your valve shims does, that or rebuilding your carbs of course. Even if your bike seems to idle decently the synch may still be off, your throttle response can be poor or your overall power will be poor with a bad vacuum synch. The only way to tell is hook up a vacuum synch to see where things are at. Have you done this already?
                  Rob
                  1983 1100ES, 98' ST1100, 02' DR-Z400E and a few other 'bits and pieces'
                  Are you on the GSR Google Earth Map yet? http://www.thegsresources.com/_forum...d.php?t=170533

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by azr View Post
                    Changing your mixture screws does not change your vacuum synch. Only making changes in your valve shims does, that or rebuilding your carbs of course. Even if your bike seems to idle decently the synch may still be off, your throttle response can be poor or your overall power will be poor with a bad vacuum synch. The only way to tell is hook up a vacuum synch to see where things are at. Have you done this already?
                    Yessir, I sync'ed the carbs and tuned the mixtures before I took it on that ride, all seemed well =[

                    I'm curious though, when I was syncing the carbs, the more I adjusted the fuel/air mix, the vacuum would definitely increase / decrease. Why would I be experiencing this change, and could this be an indicator of another problem?

                    I have not yet re-shimmed this bike, literally the day the excrement hit the fan I was preparing to break the engine open, gauge the shims, and send em out for an exchange. Very frustrating, if I could actually get to the bike I could check that vacuum sync / idle mix issue myself and get you more specific information.

                    Which, I suppose, open another question. Should I hold off on carburetor work until I re shim the engine? When I get it back I fully intend to clean the carbs again and replace that bloody screw! (ALSO - side note, the model number on Z1 for (http://www.z1enterprises.com/ItemDet...item=KL18-2645) matches the one I ordered in the first place, though it's an entirely different screw! Methinks someone "screwed" up. I found my digital receipt and looked up the cross ref. number .

                    -edit- what happened to boulevardsuzuki.com?! They're the ones I've been buying the screws from, now their web site redirects me to parts outlaw?
                    Last edited by Guest; 03-05-2014, 08:04 PM.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      PartsOutlaw is the new name for their online parts. I've talked with them directly and it's their attempt to increase sales online, etc.. Just so you know you can get up to a 30% discount by using 3 different promo codes. As for the mixture screws adusting the vacuum, I suppose that is true to a small degree, you can always do your vacuum synch and mixture setting at the same time (Carbtune actually recommends that in their tutorial) I don't believe it's a sign of another problem though, I'm sure someone else can chime in about this issue. If I were you I'd do the shims and get your carbs sorted out and go from there, oh and get your airbox properly sealed and put together, then everything is the way it should and will give you a good base point to go from.
                      Rob
                      1983 1100ES, 98' ST1100, 02' DR-Z400E and a few other 'bits and pieces'
                      Are you on the GSR Google Earth Map yet? http://www.thegsresources.com/_forum...d.php?t=170533

                      Comment


                        #12
                        What are the promo codes? They say free shipping on OEM but it still adds $8 shipping when I order only OEM parts.
                        http://img633.imageshack.us/img633/811/douMvs.jpg
                        1980 GS1000GT (Daily rider with a 1983 1100G engine)
                        1998 Honda ST1100 (Daily long distance rider)
                        1982 GS850GLZ (Daily rider when the weather is crap)

                        Darn, with so many daily riders it's hard to decide which one to jump on next.;)

                        JTGS850GL aka Julius

                        GS Resource Greetings

                        Comment


                          #13
                          The free shipping only happens after $99, here's the promo codes



                          they are using promo codes to give additional 10% discounts, I found 3 of them on the net and they let you use them all. Very nice. Copy and past them just like this into the promo spot

                          outlawlife, suzukivolusia, suzukiatvforums
                          Rob
                          1983 1100ES, 98' ST1100, 02' DR-Z400E and a few other 'bits and pieces'
                          Are you on the GSR Google Earth Map yet? http://www.thegsresources.com/_forum...d.php?t=170533

                          Comment

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