Am I Over-Charging

[Suzuki_Don]

I didn't read this in any posts but check the volt meter that is connected on your bike for accuracy. My voltmeter that is connected to my 850 is reading low by about a volt at 3-4k rpms. But when I check the vdc with a hand held meter at the battery it is within normal ranges (14.2 vdc at 3k rpms).

It probably is the sense wire low output at the rear brake that is causing the higher charging vdc but maybe worth checking the bike's voltmeter.

I had the same problem with my initial sense wire connection to the brake light. It was reading a low output thus high voltmeter readings. Lucabond installed a relay and connected the sense wire to it and fixed the problem.

TAS, I will check the volt meter this afternoon when I get home, I have a digital and an analogue hand held meters that I can test with.

[rustybronco]

So just to double check; I run a jumper from the fins of the R/R to the "-ive" terminal of the battery and see if the charging rate alters on my voltmeter. Is that correct. Have I got it!!!!!!!!!!!!

If the "fins" are not electrically connected (internally) to the R/R's negative wire, that won't work. to be sure, you need to connect the negative wire of the R/R, to the batteries negative post 'via' a jumper wire.

I don't have a Honda R/R readily available to see if the -ve? (I'm old and can't remember) wire is electrically connected to the 'fins'.

[Suzuki_Don]

Thanks Guys for all the advice and help. I will do all the tests this afternoon when I get home from work and will post the results.

Thanks again to everyone.

[posplayr]

did this explanation clear it up for you?

And now you should know the reason Jim asked what He did!

also, the same applies to the negative side!

Actually I was hoping I did not have to ask about the negative side as Don had already diligently gone through the revised stator pages confirming his voltage drops between R/R and battery.

Whoops, I'm just now realizing that for the Honda 6 wire, it doesn't quite work because the upper leg drop is a function of not only the cable drop but also the voltage sense point.

Have to think about that one.....................

[Suzuki_Don]

The News Is All Bad

The news is not good.

I checked the voltage drop at the brake light switch wiring and it was 0.2v less than the battery.

I warmed the motor up and the volt meter was registering 14.8v at idle.

It was also registering 14.8 volts at 4000rpm (the digital reading did not move at all when the motor was revved).

This reading was the same whether the sense wire was connected to the brake light switch or the battery +ive terminal. It didn't alter when the light switch was turned ON or OFF either.

I disconnected the sense wire and the red +ive wire from the R/R and put a volt meter across the red wire and the -ive battery terminal. I ran the motor up to 4000 revs and obtained a reading of just over 50VDC from the R/R. Is this normal?

Is it normal to have the same voltage at idle as at 4000rpm?

Would disconnecting 1 phase from the generator drop the charging voltage from the R/R?

Is the problem a faulty R/R? If so which type should I look for to replace it with? I don't want to spend a lot of bucks.

Please help.

[Suzuki_Don]

As the Honda R/R seemed to be charging the battery fine before I stripped my bike down for the restoration and redid the wiring, I am wondering if maybe I rewired the R/R incorrectly. Below is a picture of my new fusebox and wiring setup.



The wire from the solenoid to power the rest of the electrical system is going to the top of the fuse (yellow) on the left of the panel. The wire in the sheath below the yellow fuse then goes away to the ignition switch.

The red power wire +ive from the R/R comes up to the green 30amp fuse from underneath and then is linked across to the other fuse on the left so the charging power can be directed back to the battery.

Will this design work or have I stuffed up in some way.


Also I have another R/R but I do not know what it is off and how to test the terminals and find out which terminals go where in the wiring system. Anyone have any ideas.




Any help will be appreciated.

[tom203]

If the "fins" are not electrically connected (internally) to the R/R's negative wire, that won't work. to be sure, you need to connect the negative wire of the R/R, to the batteries negative post 'via' a jumper wire.

I don't have a Honda R/R readily available to see if the -ve? (I'm old and can't remember) wire is electrically connected to the 'fins'.

I just checked three Shindengen (honda) rr's - the case is NOT connected to negative output, i.e. it's not grounded. As was stated, running the r/r ground to battery negative is real important. Doublecheck your meter reading- a rock steady reading as you rev up seems dubious- switch on turn signal, meter should jump around a bit.

[Steve]

I am wondering if maybe I rewired the R/R incorrectly. Below is a picture of my new fusebox and wiring setup.



The wire from the solenoid to power the rest of the electrical system is going to the top of the fuse (yellow) on the left of the panel. The wire in the sheath below the yellow fuse then goes away to the ignition switch.

The red power wire +ive from the R/R comes up to the green 30amp fuse from underneath and then is linked across to the other fuse on the left so the charging power can be directed back to the battery.

Any help will be appreciated.

One question: where does that green wire in the upper-right corner go?

Most of the colors on GSs remained rather constant. The only green wire I am acquainted with is for the horns. You have it apparently feeding the fuses.

Most of the bikes will have a red wire that feeds the MAIN fuse from either the battery or the solenoid (that would be your sheathed wire on the upper left). The other side of the MAIN fuse should be a red wire that goes to the ignition switch. The return line from the ignition switch is orange, and it will feed the rest of the box (that's where your green wire is connected). From the bottom of those fuses will be the wires that feed LIGHTS, SIGNALS and IGNITION. Not sure what your fourth fuse is there. Your yellow fuse on the left end is positioned and fed as if it were the AUX circuit. It would usually just feed a set of screw terminals, not connected to anything else on the bike.

I like the workmanship on the fuse box wiring, it just looks like some wires need to be rearranged.

.

[Suzuki_Don]

One question: where does that green wire in the upper-right corner go?

Most of the colors on GSs remained rather constant. The only green wire I am acquainted with is for the horns. You have it apparently feeding the fuses.

Most of the bikes will have a red wire that feeds the MAIN fuse from either the battery or the solenoid (that would be your sheathed wire on the upper left). The other side of the MAIN fuse should be a red wire that goes to the ignition switch. The return line from the ignition switch is orange, and it will feed the rest of the box (that's where your green wire is connected). From the bottom of those fuses will be the wires that feed LIGHTS, SIGNALS and IGNITION. Not sure what your fourth fuse is there. Your yellow fuse on the left end is positioned and fed as if it were the AUX circuit. It would usually just feed a set of screw terminals, not connected to anything else on the bike.

I like the workmanship on the fuse box wiring, it just looks like some wires need to be rearranged.

.

Steve,
Red wire on top left from solenoid.
Red wire in black sheath, bottom left to ignition switch.
Green wire top right from ignition switch (used larger gauge wire to provide power to the four remaining fuses, could not get orange wire in the gauge I needed) so used green.
The four wires on the bottom right feed all the other needs of the bike, coils, instrument panel, blinkers, horn, lights, etc. (I have not followed wiring diagram for this, but have split the loads on the bike over the four fuses to lighten the loads through each fuse).

The yellow fuse on the left hand end has the red solenoid wire coming in from the top and the red wire (covered by a black sheath for extra protection) coming out of the bottom which goes to the ignition switch.

The horn is wired up as is standard. The green wire at the fuse box is just a larger gauge wire that runs from the ignition switch back to the fuse box which replaces the orange wire that was there originally.

My main concern as far as the R/R goes is the red wire from the R/R which feeds into the bottom of the fusebox, second fuse from the left and from there links into the red wire from the solenoid which then goes back to the battery. Is this setup OK to charge the battery, or have I wired up the R/R incorrectly?

Thanks.

[rustybronco]

My main concern as far as the R/R goes is the red wire from the R/R which feeds into the bottom of the fusebox, second fuse from the left and from there links into the red wire from the solenoid which then goes back to the battery. Is this setup OK to charge the battery, or have I wired up the R/R incorrectly?

Sounds good to me!

[Suzuki_Don]

Sounds good to me!

Thanks Dale, now I know the wiring is OK I can start looking for another R/R to replace my faulty one (apparently).

[rustybronco]

Don, you may want to research Gel cell batteries. IIRC they like a higher than normal charging voltage.

not saying you regulator is good or faulty, but it might be wise to charge up the battery and retest your indicated voltages at idle and 5K RPMs. those measurements you recently had differ from when you first posted and are quite odd.

one more thing. may I suggest you don't test a R/R's output with the bike running and leaving the red wire disconnected from the battery. all that energy has to go somewhere. sending it back to the stator, or given up as heat in the R/R isn't my idea of a good thing to do.

[Suzuki_Don]

Don, you may want to research Gel cell batteries. IIRC they like a higher than normal charging voltage.

not saying you regulator is good or faulty, but it might be wise to charge up the battery and retest your indicated voltages at idle and 5K RPMs. those measurements you recently had differ from when you first posted and are quite odd.

one more thing. may I suggest you don't test a R/R's output with the bike running and leaving the red wire disconnected from the battery. all that energy has to go somewhere. sending it back to the stator, or given up as heat in the R/R isn't my idea of a good thing to do.

Thanks Dale, just read your post and will take your advice as suggested. My battery is fully charged, up around 13v, The battery is new, only a few months old. Not sure what type it is. It's the type where you fill it with acid and then there is no maintenance after that. It is completely sealed now. The problem has always been charging too high, at around 14.9 volts (sometimes 14.8v) and not budging from that whether at idle or running at higher revs.

Anyway I've just been down to the local wrecker and picked up a Shindengen SH232-12 9.1 R/R. So will try and get it mounted before the long ride on Saturday afternoon.





Here it is, I will have to modify the wires for fitting to the 550 and then hopefully everything will be OK. I am going to mount it on a 10mm aluminium plate to add an extra heat sink to try and keep it cool.

[Suzuki_Don]

Don, it's too high for my tastes. although I've seen some R/R's 'high limit' regulation listed as high as 15.1V.

my simple test is to move the sense wire to the battery, start it, then see if the regulated voltage differs from where it was originally connected.

Dale I have replaced the R/R and charging is still at 14.8V, 14.9V when riding the bike. I put 130km on the bike at the weekend, 1 3/4 hours continuous riding. At traffic lights it drops down to 12.6V, etc.

I read in the later model GS550 and the VX800 Suzuki Factory manuals that charging is supposed to be between 13.5V and 15.5V, so mine is in the recommended area, although I still think it's a bit high. I will just ride it and see what happens. The worst it can do is boil the battery I guess.

Also I tested for continuity between the earth wire and the fins on the R/R and there isn't any. I have mounted the new R/R on a piece of 10mm aluminium plate under the airbox to hopefully help with cooling.

[fatnfast]

I dont think you have much to worry about, after all the RR is regulating even if it does seem a 'little' high.
For piece of mind I have fitted a little led that indicates the charge rate. Have a look at item 150479033981 on ebay. They work a treat and you can set the parameters as well (and they are cheap, UK made, and he will send overseas).
You could have a look at the compufire RR's, but if you go down this route save money and get an RR from a late (2007 on) Yamaha R1. Its also made by shindengen, can handle 50amps, and is easy to wire in. Im just waiting for a cheap one to turn up and that will be my next move.